The Inclusive Networker
The Inclusive Networker is a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners, solopreneurs, and network marketers develop inclusive marketing and sales processes that help them authentically reach diverse audiences and subsequently grow large, diverse networks of customers, business partners, or team members.
The Inclusive Networker
Interview on the The Long Game Podcast w/ Sandra Scaiano: Building More Inclusive Businesses
In this episode, we feature an interview on The Long Game Podcast with Dr. Raymona as the guest. Dr. Raymona, along with the host of The Long Game Podcast, Sandra Scaiano, will discuss various strategies for engaging in inclusive business practices. They will explore the breadth of diversity and emphasize the two-way process involved in achieving it, shedding light on how we can effectively incorporate these practices into our businesses.
In this episode, we talk about the following...
1. What diversity in business really means.
2. The ROAR framework and how it supports business growth in diverse communities.
3. Learning about your lens and how it impacts our experiences.
You can find Sandra on…
Podcast https://sandrasky.com/podcast/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sandrascai/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandrasky/
Want more from Dr. Raymona?
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drraymonahlawrence/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drraymonahlawrence/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drraymonahlawrence/
Thank you for listening!
~Dr. Raymona
Hey, hey, hey, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1:Welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast, where we help network marketers, small business owners and solopreneurs become aware of gaps in knowledge or awareness that could be keeping their networks and businesses small. Tune in as we give tips and simple practical tools to make your business more inclusive and we teach you how to build inclusive communities that support diverse customers, team members and business partners. So if you want to authentically build relationships with diverse communities of customers or business partners, you are in the right place. But be warned you will be challenged. But here's the thing you won't be judged. I'm your host, dr Ramona. I'm a speaker, coach, consultant, public health professor, wife, mom and a fierce challenger of broken systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. I'm so excited to be with you on your journey to becoming an inclusive networker, so let's jump right in.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, hey, and welcome, welcome, welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. I am so excited to bring you this series. As you know, if you have listened to any episode of the Inclusive Networker, I am always telling you who I'm calling into conversation, but for the next few episodes, I am going to highlight podcasts where I have been called into conversation, I have been on some amazing podcast with some amazing podcast hosts, and so I'm starting today with highlighting Sandra Skyano of the long game. She talked to me about so many amazing things as it relates to business. We talked about a thriving community, we talked about what diversity really means, we talked about my Roar framework and how it supports business growth in diverse communities, and we talked about the differences in each of our experiences, and so if you are ready to respect differences in your business and learn how to incorporate those and what you learn from others into your business strategy, this is the podcast episode for you. So jump right in, listen to me and Sandra Skyano on the long game.
Speaker 2:You're listening to the Long Game Podcast. I'm your host, sandra Skyano. We all approach our life and business through our own lens. Who we are, where we grew up, the cultural influences of those places and the experiences we had create who we are today, and with that, we look at and move through the world in our own way. With keeping our uniqueness, we need to ask ourselves how can we be more inclusive in how we operate in our business? Are we thinking of others' experiences when we create our products in our marketing?
Speaker 2:And this has been on my mind, as I had an experience with an event I was part of, as the event organizers were promoting. Someone in a Facebook group commented how not diverse the panel was and of course there are always layers, right, there was some visible diversity on the panel, and I later learned that there was even more diversity, as the meaning of that word can be interpreted broader, more broad than just race and ethnicity. But the crux of this was how it made me feel I didn't like being a part of something that was viewed as non-inclusive in certain ways, and even though many different groups were specifically outreached to participate. So I had a chat about this with today's guest, dr Ramona Lawrence. She's got her doctorate in public health, is a speaker, coach, consultant, business strategist and is a certified diversity executive. And we talk about a number of topics today, one being that there are many categories for diversity and that it is a two-viewpoint street not just your viewpoint and we get actionable with how we can make sure our business lines up with our values of diversity, equity and inclusion and our values in general right. So we've got to recognize our own perspective as well as thinking about the customer journey through the lens of different communities.
Speaker 2:So Dr Ramona is a disruptor of the systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. She uses her proven Roar framework recruitment, onboarding, accountability and retention to teach systems that support business growth in diverse communities. And she believes that networking is one of the most underused and most powerful strategies for social reform and the secret sauce for business growth. So I'm excited to have this conversation today. The long game is building more inclusive businesses with Dr Ramona Lawrence.
Speaker 2:In a world where everyone is doing, it's easy to get lost in a sea of comparison, secret tricks and promises of overnight success. The long game that's my approach to business. You got to show up, you got to do the work and there are no quick fixes for long-term success. It takes creativity, it takes strategy and it takes listening to the voice inside you. I'm a web designer, digital strategist and energetic thinker, bringing you real-world business building experiences, conversations with creators who are out there doing it now and ideas to spark the energy in your own business and along the way we're going to have a little bit of fun as well.
Speaker 2:So thanks for being here and let's get to today's episode. Welcome to another episode of the Long Game Podcast. I'm so excited for today's conversation with us. Today is Dr Ramona Lawrence, who is the founder of Dr Ramona Lawrence Coaching. She's a speaker, a coach, a consultant and strategist and a certified diversity executive. She really tries to disrupt the systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. She uses her Roar Framework, which is recruitment, onboarding, accountability and retention, to teach systems that support business growth in diverse communities, and she believes that networking is one of the most underused and most powerful strategies for social reform and the secret sauce for business growth, which I have really built my business on networking, so I love that. All right, we're going to talk a few topics today, one being how we can make our businesses more inclusive by recognizing our own perspective and as well as thinking about the customer journey through the lens of different communities. So welcome, dr Ramona Lawrence. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me, sandra. I'm so excited to be here and to just talk to you on your podcast today, so thank you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, let's start with the certified diversity coaching piece that you have, because that's really something I haven't seen so much in some of the DEI coaches, so can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, this was an intense course that I had to take to get the certification, so it's a certified diversity executive and it's through the Institute for Diversity Certification.
Speaker 1:I had to go through modules that taught me, of course, the basics of diversity, equity and inclusion, but how do you look at the business case for diversity, equity and inclusion? Then the stuff like unconscious bias, supplier diversity, boardroom diversity. So we just went through a variety of different topics so that we could understand how to lead diversity efforts, whether it be in some people in my class or from human resources. Some work at universities and in different venues to help to lead diversity efforts, and so that is something that I wanted to do. In addition to I have a doctorate in public health, and so that doctorate in public health taught me and gave me the real depth of health, inequities, social justice, all of that, and so that really laid the foundation for my training in diversity, equity and inclusion, but this was something that helped to enhance that training that I have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's so interesting that it was really a business focus because it takes these issues that happen in this segment of our lives, issues that we encounter along the way. So on that, I had told you a story and I want to start with that how people view what the term diversity means. I was part of an event this year where the organizers were called out in a promotion in a Facebook group for their perceived lack of diversity and when they responded, their response was there is a number of types of diversity that we're representing here, not just racial and ethnic, which is maybe super visible, but there was family status. You know they were like we have single moms, we have sexual orientation status. Better, you know there's all these different types of status. So can we talk about that in terms of what people perceive as diversity these days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. And so most of the time, people think about diversity as just the racial and ethnic diversity category and, as you were saying, there are lots of different diversity categories. And when we don't even think about veteran status and family status, there's gender and all of those that we think about normally, but there are so many, and so when we look at a group of people, often we focus on race and we say we're not diverse if we don't see that. Now, there's two sides of this for me, right? So one side of it is that we don't understand the depths of diversity. We don't understand that there are many different categories. The other side of this is that sometimes people say, well, there are lots of different diversity categories, so we don't have to focus on race, it's not just race, and they're trying to get out of the tough conversation. So we have to look at it on both sides.
Speaker 1:We have to understand that diversity is very broad and there are lots of different pieces of diversity and there is diversity within diversity. So we know that every white woman isn't the same, every single mom isn't the same, every black man isn't the same. There's diversity within that diversity and there's also intersections, right? And so when I always talk about, when I initially talk to people, is what is my lens? Well, I'm an African-American woman, right, so I live at that intersection of being black and a woman, right, I was also raising the deep South. So then we have the geography that's added on top of that, and so when we think about diversity and we're thinking about how are people being represented, a lot of times people do want to see people that look like them, and that's OK. But we also have to understand that, when we're talking about diversity, there are many different kinds that include the things that you talked about with family status, veteran status, gender, all of it, sexual orientation. There are many, many different types of diversity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's an interesting conversation because the organizers of this event had said hey, we specifically reached out to even you, who was commenting, who was a black woman, to say be a part of what we're doing, and you didn't fill out the form, right. So I just think we have to think about our perspective and what our outreach looks like, and I know you and I have already talked about some of the how to put it out there intentionally who we are and what we represent, even if only a certain type of person comes, even though you might be attracting that, because our biases do attract things, right. But it's such an interesting topic because you kind of put it out there and see who signs up, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that we have to really be intentional, and sometimes we even have to state that this event is one that has a value of inclusion and we want to ensure that we have representation and we are making every effort to do that. So we are reaching out and sometimes people just automatically assume well, I haven't seen people like me, so I'm not going to participate. But I think that if the organizer makes that very explicit and says this is what we value, come join us. If that's all they can do, right, right, right, other people, and so it's a difference if they're not giving people the opportunity. But if they have stated that we have given everybody the opportunity and we have made every effort to bring people on, then what can you do? So I think there's responsibility on both sides. We have to be willing to be the first.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I have been the first African-American woman to do a lot of things, but then I also recognize that sometimes I haven't had the opportunity to be a part of things as well, and so there's a balance there. I think that one thing that I really try to push with people when I'm talking about diversity, equity and inclusion is to assume good intent, because if we automatically think they just don't want people of color or they just don't want this particular diversity category, then we're not able to call people into conversation versus calling them out. So how do we call people into conversation and say, hey, I noticed that I didn't see this particular category. Tell me what you did, let's see how we can work together to change that. That's a different conversation then than oh, you just didn't, right, right right, right, yeah, and it brings a whole feeling.
Speaker 2:I wanted to continue this conversation because I felt like it's important to have and to bring the how can we correct this going forward conversation to the forefront. But you are exactly right, because the conversation that was had was finger pointing versus hey, what did you do? Type of thing. Yeah, I think it's really important and we think about everything from our own perspective, so bringing things to light for people and pointing things out, but there's a way to do it where there's no way to do it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and, like you said, I mean sometimes you think it's 2023. Like we need to. We need to make sure that we have diversity in every kind of category in our events. You need to make it happen. But then sometimes you actually have a true effort and you just don't have a lot of different types of people, and that's okay. But it needs to be a true intent and effort in everything that you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the real takeaway too is like we've got to be purposeful in as business owners, in what we do, in what we state. That could be on the stating your values, on the flyer, on the outreach or on the questionnaire. Even I took that questionnaire and from my perspective, I didn't notice anything calling out values and I didn't know these people beforehand, so I blindly just signed up as well to see if I could get on. So I think that is really the point is, let's be more purposeful in stating our values when we're having these events.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:All right. So let's get into some of the really actionable pieces, because that we're talking about an event that might be a one-time, more public piece, but it's valuable to put these pieces in and our values ongoing, Whether you have an online course or a membership or a coaching platform, a coaching business. I wanna talk about how we can take some steps to really think about putting purposeful inclusion and our values out for diversity, working through that diversity and inclusive lens for our business as a whole. So I know you've got the Roar framework, let's start with recruitment R and Roar.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me give you just a little background for this first, so that I can set the stage for what Roar means. Because I went and I was working with business owners and trying to ensure that they were speaking out, they were able to include diversity, equity and inclusion into their systems, and I realized that a lot of people couldn't speak up for themselves, much less speak up for other people, and so when we're talking about this Roar framework, the first thing that you have to do is to understand your own lens and understand where your beliefs and your values come from. If that is not there, then it's very difficult to open up your mindset to other people when you don't even know why you believe the way that you believe right, and so digging into that is something that's really important. So I always stress you have to do the personal work, and that means again thinking about where your values and your beliefs came from, not necessarily changing your values and beliefs, but questioning them and making sure that you're really accounting for other people's perspectives, understanding that there is sometimes a both and and not you're right and I'm wrong, or I'm right and you're wrong, right and so we really have to do that work. Then we look at recruitment, onboarding its activity and retention, through a diversity, equity and inclusion lens.
Speaker 1:So when we think about recruitment, if we're thinking about our biases and the things that we have thought in the past, often we recruit people that look like us, we recruit people that have the same exact value and we kind of just duplicate ourselves and we think this is my ideal client because they're the person that is like me and I think that they have the same drive, the same types of things that I do. So I really have people to think about. Well, yeah, this is my ideal client, but what is my thriving community? So that's a little bit different. And so, yes, the ideal client is an important piece of what you're doing, because you need to know who you're talking to. But what if that ideal client was a little bit older, Right? What if it was a black woman instead of white young woman? Right, A black older woman? So you have to think about well, how do I make sure that I do things and I have practices that will help all of them to thrive, and not just this one young person? So now do I need to text versus email, versus? You know, it's just those little small things that we can start to think about.
Speaker 1:We can also follow other people who don't look like us. When we're thinking about just our online business, how do we follow creators that don't look like us? How do we talk to people who don't have the exact same value? So then we understand what do people that don't look like me call themselves? What is their culture and how do they actually do this business practice right that I have, and so we have to start to think about those types of things when we're recruiting. Where are we recruiting? What do those people like? Right, and are we really going into those spaces? Or are we just kind of saying, okay, when they come over, they just have to do what I do, right, I'm just gonna make it. They have to fit my culture, Okay. So those are big things with recruiting people.
Speaker 2:And I think you bring up an interesting point too about where it can be threads of experience, Like it's not just who you are, it's what experience are you're having. Are you having this issue because you're at this point in your business, versus you're this type of person kind of piece. You know it's thinking in alternative modes about your ideal client. Because you know, I've really been thinking a lot about the ideal client, Like, yes, we have to name them, we have to. You know, I try and say we have to know who we're talking to, that type of thing. But that write it out right, who this person is type of thing have an image of them that is very singular, that becomes very singular.
Speaker 2:It is absolutely Versus thinking about and I know people really get you know, there is this discourse about leading with pain points and people don't want to pull on that. But the pain points, in a way, are the universal experience that people are having. So it doesn't matter, you know who they are, so to speak. It's about the experience they're having, so that the problem you solve is a universal, one type of approach.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, yeah, and we also have to, though, think about the pain points from different people's perspectives, because, even though you know they can be universal, your pain point might be a little bit different than mine, and so I often think about people that are, you know, maybe from different countries, and they're thinking about okay, I need to make money because I've got to send this money back to my family in this other country to make sure that they eat. Somebody else is like oh, I'm crunched because I'm just trying to pay this telephone bill, right? It's the same type of pain point, but very different, right? And so we have to think about, well, what is really happening? Even deeper into this pain point. Yes, they both need money because they've got to make an end meet somewhere, but the reason behind that pain point can be very much more crucial for one person than another, right? So, even digging deeper into that is what I hope people try to see.
Speaker 2:And I love the action piece of following different types of creators. You know that's really where you may learn about these different experiences. So that is a gold gem that you've just dropped. Because the question is well, how do I learn about what other people's experiences are you read? You know I'm always encouraging my audience to like read a plethora of writers and pieces on the internet, like hearing these different stories, so following different creators. So really a great point. And here's the thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can do this in a very simple way. So there's one time when me, I watched the Woman King movie with my daughter and my sisters okay, my white friend watched the Woman King movie with some of her friends. We were in the same movie, we had the same experience watching the movie, but we had very different lenses, because I was watching this as an African-American woman seeing this, she was watching this as a white woman seeing this. And so we got to talk and say, okay, tell me about your experience seeing this, how did it feel to see the culture behind this? And so you tell me what you thought when you were watching this. And so those types of things are things that you can easily translate over into business. Right, because you get to see somebody else's perspective on culture, and so that is. I don't want people to think that this has to be hard or we have to even read these extensive DEI books or have a certified diversity executive like me.
Speaker 1:It's like no, we all can be in the same Zoom and have a different experience. We can be in the same room and have a different experience, so we just have to talk about them and then think about okay, now how do I not just move past this, but how do I put this into action in my business? It's storytelling, and we always talk about. Storytelling is the best way to move people, to get them to do different things, and so we develop our own stories that help us to grow in the area of DEI and in our business.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and that links us right into the next actionable piece in the Roar Framework, which is onboarding, and this, to me, is so important. This is onboarding is a pillar in my own framework, actually, so I love that you bring this up. How can we be more inclusive in onboarding? We've done the attraction piece, and what do I need to consider now as I'm going in? What are the questions and how can we go about this?
Speaker 1:So one thing that I always want people to think about is the fact that we recruit for diversity, but we onboard for conformity. Okay, so we're constantly telling people we want more diverse people to come in, we want you to, you can thrive in this business. And then they come in and we say you must do it this way. It's conformity, right. There's no way that they can bring in their culture, their diversity, their uniqueness into our frameworks. And so I always think about this in a super practical way, which is thinking about your grandmother and recipes, right?
Speaker 1:So when your grandmother was in the kitchen, you know, back in the day, she would make things and she would have certain spices and different things like that, and she would put it together, but she didn't always use a recipe, right? She didn't say this is the exact amount, this is the exact spice, and why? Because one. She wanted to empower us to be able to eat, not just to follow a recipe, and she knew that she might not have the same exact ingredients in the next kitchen. So if you're so stuck on a recipe and you move to a different kitchen, then you're not going to be able to make it if they don't have every ingredient, and so what's happening and how does that translate to business? What'd you say? Awesome analogy, really. So I take this recipe that you've given me and I put it in my different kitchen, which is my different community, and I don't have the same spices and my community doesn't like that flavor, right. Then it doesn't work. And then you say to me oh, you just didn't follow the system.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, it's what we, as business owners, have to start to think about. How do we help people develop frameworks? So I need to tell you this spice has to be here. Whatever kind of salty spice you want to use that works in your community, put that here. You don't have to use this exact one. Okay. Then here's the next piece of it. You need this thing so we can think about it like something simple. Like okay, you need an email autoresponder. Okay, if you use convert kit flow desk, whatever you want to use, it's up to you, right? And so that's the type of thing that we really have to have people to think about. Is, in any of your systems that you have, when you're onboarding people, how do you ask what fits best in your community and then help people to adjust and use a framework, versus an actual recipe that you're giving them, that they have to use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I think that's where, just from a business standpoint, the most success comes. I've learned from my clients that letting them bring themselves to the business the most is the way for them to be the most successful. This is good business, this is good culture. This is good all of that because it equals joy when a person can be who they are, and success because they will be the most successful when they're able to bring their own personality forward in it.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:All right, so let's move to the A in Roar activity. That's really about presenting your product, putting your offers out there. Yeah, that's what it is, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's different for some people, and so I talk to people a lot about thinking through prospecting or how they're sometimes reaching out to people to present the products. And if you think about I work a lot with people in network marketing it's the same for a lot of different businesses. Let's say you're telling an African-American man to walk up to strangers and make a conversation with them. Well, that feels very different. Then it would be possibly for someone else. And why is that? Because the history of things that have happened to men when they were sometimes just in the park watching birds, right, and so we, right, we have to think about those types of things.
Speaker 1:So how is your activity different for people in different cultures? If you're going into some people's homes, you can't just pop up and show your products right in their homes Because it takes time. They have to build a relationship with you, you, you. It's just not proper to go into their homes of someone you that you don't know. Right, even online sometimes, different people in different diversity categories aren't respected as much, just automatically.
Speaker 1:It takes more time to build the reputation, and that's how it is, and so we have to think about when we are telling people the activity that it takes to get the business done. We cannot assume that it's the same for everybody and that they're automatically going to be respected, that they're automatically going to be able to just walk up to a stranger, that they can just go to a strange neighborhood that doesn't look like them and get out and pull out products and you know. So there are Things like that that we really have to start to think about and again, asking people of different cultures about those systems and how they work for them, or even the people that have not succeeded, asking them what didn't work and adding that back into your systems. And so that's what I mean by activity. How do we dig deep into what makes your business work, what makes people successful, and see what are the tweaks that we need to make when it comes to different people in different communities?
Speaker 2:And it's such an important point too, because there is this Singular just go out and put yourself out there and get followers and then you know this. We call it bro marketing. Right, like this singular bro marketing voice of this is the way to do it, and it's not the same experience for each person. I have certain experiences as a woman versus a man, versus a black woman has a different experience than me as a white woman, so those are. It's so interesting because, again, it's getting out of your own head, in your own experience and the awareness of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes it bothers me when people say you just didn't work hard enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't think harder yeah that is what the blame the system. I mean you can't beat the system. You know like it's the system. So, yeah, so interesting, all right, and this is next in it in the Roar framework is retention, which I really love to talk about, because that's part of the special sauce of business is building relationships, and that's how I see things is building relationships. I have clients who come back to me a year later. I've done what you said, and now it's a year later. I'm ready for the next phase. Right, that's my retention and my relationship building. So it's really important because Certain things, if you're an e-commerce or a product person, yeah, you always need more people, but you want that repeat business. You know we have a lot of people who listen in, who have membership sites, so retention is really important Because that's their business model, is that subscription piece over and over. So we pay a lot of attention to Retention here. So let's talk about retention in developing that inclusive culture piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what it is.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of all of this kind of combined comes to the retention.
Speaker 1:And so if we've been able to Really respect differences in people, and not only respect them but incorporate those things into our systems, then we can create that culture of belonging and when people just feel like that they, they want to be there, right, right.
Speaker 1:And so after we've created that culture, then we say and there's more. So we're always giving right and we say here's another thing that you can do, or here are are some other pieces of the system that I can give you. Or how do you now have people to refer other people to you Because they've been connected to that inclusive culture? And so the retention piece is really just how am I making sure that I have truly made people feel like they belong? I've offered them something else to stay within my system, and then, even if that is just they are, email and following up with them and making sure that they understand that you still care about them after you've gotten their money and that you're not just done with them, and so that kind of cyclical system where You're giving them something else. You've created the culture. It's something that they want to be a part of, and then we retain them in that way.
Speaker 2:One of the ideas that pops in my head that I think is really being sensitive to this is thinking about time zones and Having your calls at different times throughout. You know, so simple. Hey, I'm on the East Coast, 9 am Works great for me, but Someone in Australia or someone in the Middle East could be a customer who it's like it's 2 in the morning, right, like. So I think that is a way to think about when you're having your calls, staggering them at different times, or even having one that's at 9 o'clock at night, eastern time, so that people from other Cultures and other places in the world can participate.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, absolutely, and I have scheduled calls and put them on my calendar for 5 am Because I know that in In the UK it's 10 right, they've been up, and so it's really important for us to think about those types of things, not scheduling things on religious holidays.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm you know, when we don't think about things outside of Christian holidays, those types of things really make people feel like, oh, they care about me and what I'm thinking, and I think just having this meeting with your team and talking through and following a product or a system through different cultures and so I often use the example of suntan lotion right, well, I am probably not gonna use suntan lotion, right, like, not sunscreen, suntan lotion, right.
Speaker 1:And so when you follow that, if I was sitting on a call and I followed that through my community versus your community or someone else, then you'd probably sell more, right, right, not because I wasn't trying or just because it just doesn't work in my community. So when we sit and we think about our systems from other people's points of view, then we can make those changes, make those adjustments, retain our people because they're not trying to make everything just crunch and fit like Gumby in a system that doesn't work for them. And so those are the types of things that I really have people to do. It's like, how do we get a group of people together? Let's get one system and talk through it with those different people, and then you can see the spots that you weren't seeing because your lens is different, and so you don't have to have every lens. Just bring in people with a different lens, talk through it with them and they will give you the feedback that you need to adjust your systems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that is such a great point too, because you can do a survey, you can send a question even out to people like, hey, I'm thinking of doing this, how does this affect you, right, or how you know we can ask. Like, I think that's one of the biggest pieces in this is that sometimes people feel they're afraid to ask and they don't know, but that is where the conversation gets started. I asked you, right, like here I talked about, I wanted to talk about this experience with the event. I was at right and I wanted to think how can we make it better, how can we bring people in going forward to not have the same experience type of thing. So I asked and I think that is the biggest piece as well is how are you affected by this? Or I'm thinking of doing this, what do you all think? I want your feedback on this Exactly exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:I also think that one piece I wanna talk about is we can apply all of this, the Vora framework that we've talked about, and all of the approaches within it, to our instruction. We are always as business owners in our offers. Many of us are course creators or membership site owners or coaches in some way, so we are teaching and we are instructors in that way and keeping in mind that we know we have different learner types, different abilities and there's also different cultural experiences in the learning process, and so making sure that what you do lands with people, so that you can in your marketing it lands with people, so that you can attract all different types of people to what you're doing, but then also in the education process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and being really careful not to say phrases and I'm trying to think of an example of it, and of course my brain is going blank right now but thinking about phrases that are really really just kind of colloquial. There are four, one culture in one place in the United States, right? So when you use examples and then other people are like I don't get it right, it's important to not do those types of things and then to try to look for examples from different cultures and different viewpoints in your teaching. I used to be a middle school teacher way back in the day, and we talked about differentiated instruction, and so when you have different people in the room that have different learning styles, how do you give these four or five different examples in different ways so that somebody can get it right? And so it may be an auditory example, it may be something that's kinesthetic, it may be something that is just didactic, it may be something that is something that they're actually working on as a role play or an example, and so how do we kind of put all of that together so that they can then understand and comprehend the information?
Speaker 1:And so there's different ways to give people things. Even there are people that have a hard time just reading a lot, and so I give my people the app Speechify and I'm like look, the app Speechify, you can download a PDF into it and it will read it to you. So if you're walking somewhere or you're going somewhere and you need to absorb the information quickly, put it in Speechify. So there's so many different ways that we can get the information to people, but we again have to start thinking outside of the box. Talk to people that have different learning styles. Learning styles, neurodiversity all of that is another type of diversity, and so we have to think about all of that as we are developing our courses and in our businesses.
Speaker 2:And I don't think it means water yourself down, I think you know. I want to point that out because it still means bring your ethnicity forward, bring your accent forward, bring, whatever it is your way of talking, your colloquialisms, but be conscious of explaining what they mean or having people understand that point throughout. So, exactly Because that is the uniqueness, right, like that whole piece that you're bringing forward, you want to keep that and go forward with that, and I don't want people to hear this and think they have to dilute themselves or no, yeah, change what they have to say, like, say it, but be cognizant, so you know, explain what that means, or all of that, because I love that piece, you know, I love those cultural references, and I will tell you that that also makes me go look things up and learn about who I'm learning from as well, because I'll say, oh, I don't even really know what that is, let me go. Oh, and then I go down a rabbit hole of something else which just broadens my experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just adding to the example right. And so we just stop there. Sometimes it doesn't land or people aren't going to do that and go look it up. So just adding to those examples a little bit, it really helps to increase the learning.
Speaker 2:I am a big proponent of citations, so you know that's another piece Like I'm sure you are well versed in this but citing your sources right, like you can just put where it's from and people can go if they need to. Absolutely, you know so much here for us to really continue the conversation, to grow our businesses, to have our businesses be more diverse and be more inclusive. So I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking with us and really giving us some actionable steps that we can take so that we can create businesses that represent our values. You know, I know my listeners that is something that's important to them. So thank you so much, dr Ramona for being here today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. And that wraps up another episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, our listeners, for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. Your support and engagement are truly, truly appreciated. Creating a more inclusive network and beyond starts with us, individually and collectively. Let's continue these conversations beyond the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Engage with others, challenge your own assumptions, take action to make a difference in your own spheres of influence and share, share, share this podcast with a friend. So here's what you can do next Go to drramonahlawnescom and keep up with me. Stay in touch. That's D-R-R-A-Y-M-O-N-A-H-L-A-W-R-E-N-C-Ecom. Don't forget my why and Dr Ramona, and don't you dare forget your why, and I'll see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker.