The Inclusive Networker
The Inclusive Networker is a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners, solopreneurs, and network marketers develop inclusive marketing and sales processes that help them authentically reach diverse audiences and subsequently grow large, diverse networks of customers, business partners, or team members.
The Inclusive Networker
Building an Inclusive Corporate Future with Mary Sullivan
Are you ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and empowerment? This conversation with Mary Sullivan sheds light on the path to her success and fulfillment. Mary's diverse background and curiosity led her to create "Sweet but Fearless", a platform dedicated to empowering women in the workforce. Through reflection, research, and rebuilding, she emphasizes the importance of strategic planning and leveraging resources like SCORE for mentorship and guidance.
With a focus on becoming an expert in your field and sharing your knowledge generously, Mary encourages women to overcome imposter syndrome and embrace their fearless potential. By surrounding yourself with a supportive network and uplifting others along the way, you can navigate career transitions, gain influence, and make a lasting impact on the world. Are you ready to step into your power and become fearless in pursuit of your dreams?
In this episode, we talk about the following...
1. Mary's cultural exposure and curiosity.
2. The need to address systemic issues, particularly in the workplace.
3. Career Transition Strategy - RX3 Methodology (Reflect, Research, Rebuild).
You can find Mary on…
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marysullivanakasweetbutfearless/
Website https://sweetbutfearless.com/
Want more from Dr. Raymona?
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drraymonahlawrence/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drraymonahlawrence/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drraymonahlawrence/
Thank you for listening!
~Dr. Raymona
Hey, hey, hey and welcome, welcome, welcome to the Inclusive Networker Podcast.
Speaker 1:This podcast is the SOS. That's all the inside scoop on systems operations and the support for women and minority-owned businesses. We help small business owners and solo-preneurs become aware of gaps in knowledge or awareness that could be keeping their networks and businesses small. We help women and minority-owned businesses to be able to support women and minority-owned businesses. So if that's you, or you want to authentically support women and minority-owned businesses, you are in the right place. But be warned you will be challenged. But here's the thing you won't be judged. I'm your host, dr Ramona. I'm the owner of the fabulous software as a service that's SaaS agency called I Engage you. I'm a speaker, coach, consultant, public health professor, wife, mom and a fierce challenger of broken systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. I am so excited to be with you on your journey to becoming an Inclusive Networker. Let's jump right in.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, hey and welcome, welcome, welcome to this week's episode, this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. And who am I calling into conversation today? It is Mary Sullivan. I am so excited to tell you all about her. If you don't know me, I'm your host, I'm Dr Ramona, and we are so excited about this conversation that we're going to have today, because we are going to talk about all things Super Bowl, we are going to talk about her lens, we're going to talk about career transitions and influence. So let me tell you first a little bit about Mary.
Speaker 1:So Mary Sullivan is an executive leader in the financial services industry with over 30 years experience. She began her career after completing her master's in Spanish and undergraduate in political science. Mary has held many leadership positions that involve starting new businesses around the globe, architecting service models and leading bilingual call center teams, all with business and leadership development at the center. With her passion for helping women and other underrepresented groups, mary has been an advocate for organizations that support and promote all women. Big brothers and big sisters rock the street wall street I am remarkable facilitator and many others. Mary believes being fearless means taking risks and holding herself in those with power accountable. I love that. Mary accountable to be their best. She encourages everyone to learn and evolve, no matter where they are in their life stage. Learning is a journey, not a destination, and Mary has continued her professional growth at Harvard Business School and Cornell. So, mary, welcome, welcome, welcome to the inclusive network or podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, dr Ramona, and I'm going to start out by telling everybody the reason I'm horse is because I was at the Super Bowl celebrating my cheese.
Speaker 1:I'm so jealous Go cheese, go cheese it was wonderful. I started liking the cheese just because of my son. So my son just came knocking on the door. So my son is seven, he just started seven and he loves Patrick, mahomes and all things cheese.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it was exciting to be able to watch the Super Bowl, and I watched it at home, though you were there in person. What? How can you say no to Las Vegas? Well, what happened, dr?
Speaker 2:Ramona is. Last year I was with my son in Phoenix, arizona, and we were at the Super Bowl, but we didn't buy tickets to the game. So we sat there and we said, okay, next time, no matter what, no matter where he's an adult, we are going to go to the game. So we didn't even think that we were going to make it. This year. It was a rebuilding year and, lo and behold, we were on our way to Vegas. So it was a trip of a lifetime, definitely a great experience for me and my son.
Speaker 1:So okay, we can't skip past the halftime show.
Speaker 2:No, sure, tell us.
Speaker 1:What did you think in person? Oh my goodness, I know I was rocking at home.
Speaker 2:Everybody was and probably like everybody, watching. We were all waiting for specific songs, right, because he has so many great ballads. But everybody was waiting for all the songs and when they hit, everybody got up and was dancing and it really set a mood. I mean, and then when little John came on and Ludacris, and then of course, her strumming the guitar, yes, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:And no one's didn't forget the red you know the piano with Alicia Keys.
Speaker 2:It was amazing. She is a great pianist and, yeah, the whole show. We were mesmerized by how quickly they set it up and take down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my gosh, because it's not. It's right in the middle of the field. 25 minutes, that's right.
Speaker 2:Between beginning and end Systems. Yeah, oh, they've got it down. I thought, wow, that is a organization that could be a whole business case study how to do this, and it was great. And then again, just the whole. I have to give kudos to Las Vegas. They did a great job all throughout the city. Like you would just walk around and need directions and I've been to Vegas before, but you know I hadn't been to a Legion Stadium and I hadn't been to certain events. For the Super Bowl, they were having people all over the place directing you and helping you Just out of the blue. I thought, wow, that is really nice and great service. So they end to end. For the minute you got off the airplane in the airport, they were greeting you for the Super Bowl, designated in their colors of the purple and red for the Super Bowl. It was beautiful, it was a good experience, so wow.
Speaker 1:Once in a lifetime. That is the thing that I would really want to do one day is just actually go to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2:With your son In person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so with my son, yes.
Speaker 2:That was we did. We looked at each other and I said, wow, this is one of the best experiences ever. And he said, oh, I think it's definitely my top and he's expecting a child. And I said well, I think when you have your child, you will know that it's not the number one, but it's in the top five.
Speaker 1:Yes, wow, well, that was an exciting story and your voice sounds great, so we we are happy that you got that experience. If you had to come on here a little bit horse, then that is okay. Good, good, yes. So you know. Back to all the amazing things and your accomplishments and let's talk about how you got here. And so I always ask people when they come on the show what is your lens, what is your background? You know, how did you even get to the point that you are all of these types of things? So what is your lens, mary? So my lens?
Speaker 2:Dr Ramona is to overuse the word right Is very diverse in the sense that my parents made a choice.
Speaker 2:They were civil rights advocates back in the sixties and made a choice to move to Kansas City, Missouri, in order to provide us a more diverse upbringing. And so I come from an Italian-American, Irish family, Caucasian, but we were also very no-transcript, exposed to other cultures in our community, in our schools and in our religion, and I think that just set the course for me to be curious, to really want to understand how others were adjusting, how others were affected by rules, by politics, by choices, and that set up everything for me. And then, as I studied Spanish, I also had the chance to go abroad. That opened up another world for me, and just learning how to travel and again I'm going to go back to the word curious, because I think that is what set that lens for me is to say I go home every day with my lens and my privilege of being a white woman, but at the same time I'm willing to learn from others, understand their journey and help and be an ally along the way, and that's what I committed to doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. And so a little bit about the things that you've done with women. You have a podcast and it's sweet but fearless. And I love the title of this thing yes, we are sweet, but we are fearless right so tell us a little bit more about that, and then the work that you do and how you all came to that.
Speaker 2:So, dr Ramona, it came about because we felt you know also another lens, as I was one of the few women in a largely male dominated financial services when I started so oftentimes I was the only woman at the table, and certainly the white woman at the table right.
Speaker 2:There were hardly any women of color at the table either.
Speaker 2:And one of the things my colleagues and I noticed after 30 years and after a lot of work recruiting and developing talent of all levels and all backgrounds, is that we still had a void.
Speaker 2:We still had a void in the own industry that we were a part of and we also felt there was a void across many other industries and it specifically fell off in that frontline female leader space where either they weren't getting the attention and the coaching and the development they needed to move forward or they were being pigeonholed into certain roles and therefore not given the juicy roles right the roles closest to the money, the roles closest to the client. So we created sweet but fearless, because we felt we could accelerate that and help plug up those holes for women in the workforce by our own development of learning and through coaching and through, specifically, our podcast. We felt like you're a podcast that we could give a lot of gems out there to individuals and really help them learn and grow along the way, and all they have to invest is time time to listen and learn and absorb the information. So we started with it and now we're going on four years and over 7,000 followers, and we're very excited on our journey.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and that's a lot of this idea of equity that we talk about. And how do we make sure that women are able to access the resources that they need and access the things that they need? And a lot of times we are seen as the ones who are doing the more touchy-filly, soft jobs and we're not seen as the ones that need to be educated to be the leaders. And then, when we are trying to become the leader, we're seen as this.
Speaker 1:people use this term alpha woman and all these kinds of things and it's like no, I just want to fulfill my purpose in the world, just like you do, and it's all of these terms and things that we get labeled with when we're wanting to be women who are successful in the world, and so I really love what you're doing and I'm grateful that you all are taking that on, so I have a story that will actually amplify that.
Speaker 2:And so I was working for a large firm, the largest mutual fund company in the world, and they had an office in Charlotte, north Carolina. Part of their diversity, equity and inclusion efforts was really ensuring a lot of women and men of color got access to being licensed, because when we're recruiting and you recruit and you want someone who's already carries their brokerage license, there's not a lot of people of color in the industry that had that at the time. So we were like, well, let's put them through a lot of training, let's get individuals, get them up to speed, let's get more parity. But then they realized after going through the courses that a lot were failing and they kept thinking why, why, why are so many women, specifically women of color, failing taking these exams? So we did a deep dive on the study and we really came to the conclusion it's because the testing, as I'm sure you know, is very geared toward being a white person in the workplace, and all the examples, all the techniques, all the adult learning styles were geared toward a white person and not by any means anybody of color.
Speaker 2:So we changed the training, we changed the development and, of course, then what happens, right, the passing rate accelerated and was on par with everybody else. So a lot of times, when I believe that we're looking for what is the problem, I think a lot of individuals stop at. They're the problem, right, whoever they are. That group versus the system, right, systemic foundation of whatever was created in order to and I wouldn't say that was created to keep people back, but it wasn't created to pull people forward. I know that, yes, yes, it wasn't intentional, but it was happening.
Speaker 1:That's near and dear to my heart when you say that, because you know, I always say my purpose is to challenge broken systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. And the reason that I came into this work is because I was in a company and I saw the system broken and I looked at the top of the company and there were no women of color that were at the very top of the company and this company was 40 years old. And I'm saying are you telling me that no woman of color worked hard enough to get to the top of this company? And all this time? It's a systems issue. It's a systems issue in this company and it's a systems issue in this industry in general. And we really have to start to address these things and not say you need to work harder, you need to do all of these things.
Speaker 1:No, that's not always the case. Do you have to work hard? Yes, is it that you aren't working hard? That's always the reason? No, and so I think it's so important to make sure that people always think from a systems lens. So when I ask, what's your lens? Is your lens the systems lens? Are you thinking of everything at the individual level? Are you thinking people are overweight because they just don't eat right and exercise it? Could there be anything else going?
Speaker 2:on.
Speaker 1:All right, so it's just Okay. I'm gonna get off my thing, cuz this is you stay there, I love it.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about I can keep going on and on and on 50 billion examples of that in the workplace, not only in my industry but many others. Well, it goes to recruiting dr Mona, and we talk about, you know, career evolution and Pivoting in your career. A lot of things also happened because, when you think about it again, going back to the financial industry, they were handing out money Please refer your family and friends. It will give you, you know, dollars for that and it was exciting. But of course, people were referring people that look like them. Their family and friends usually look like them.
Speaker 2:So, again, decades of not bringing in more people of color and more diverse backgrounds Because of the fact that we were rewarding a specific behavior. Another example of that is that, like you're saying, systemic again, did they do this in order to exclude people of color? I don't think so, but it did, and no one took the time to say what is broken Until someone did, and that was right after George Floyd, when they made a big difference of saying wait a minute, let's go through every single process with a different lens.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, absolutely. So, as we're thinking about that and we said, you know we go into this topic of career Transitions and how people move into different things Tell us a little bit about the work that you do with helping women with those transitions, because a lot of the listeners of the inclusive network are, you know, building this thing on the side, they're building this business and they also have full-time jobs. Even me, I'm a full-time professor, right? Yeah, I have a big full-time job and I do this business and the speaking, coaching and consultants. So, when you're thinking about this idea of Transitioning in your career, what are some of the types of things that you do with women or that you teach women about that process?
Speaker 2:so the first thing we do is we have we created what we call the RX3 methodology. Rx3 and and that stands for reflect, research and rebuild, and the reason we created that is when we went through all of the processes, you know, taking that lean methodology and through all of the steps it really boiled down to every single adult learning technique that we felt we could impart with others, came back to that, came back to the RX3. It all started with doing the reflection on yourself, really thinking through what is your brand. When you're thinking of a career transition, or maybe you're in your nine to five corporate and you're wanting to move into Entrepreneur or add another business, it's always about what is my brand and what can I transfer Right, what are my transferable skills that I like? Because this is a chance to leave behind the things you don't like. Don't bring those with you. This is your chance. You're rebuilding, so take that through the reflection. We have different you know sources to help you with that, surveys, you know. Quiz is all sorts of. You know different techniques to help pull that out of you.
Speaker 2:But really thinking through what is it that you would like to do, how do you want to spend your day and who do you want to serve? One of the reasons when we started sweet but fairly says we wanted to serve the women, that we chose Right. We wanted to specifically serve women and specifically in underrepresented groups. So now we get to do that. You don't always get to do that in your nine to five in corporate America, but we did get to do that by starting our own business. So that's why I know that was true, that really starting with reflection and Choosing what you want to do and who you want to serve and how you want to do it is critical. Then we moved into when you're thinking about career transition, doing the research. You have time and that's why I do recommend to individuals to do it while you have a job. I've pivoted to a Entrepreneur a job before and left one and started the other. I would not do that again. I would always do it while I was working. It's so much.
Speaker 1:That's good for me, there's others that are like no, I have to be all in and I thought no, I needed my safety net.
Speaker 2:I needed that paycheck in order to hold me over being a single pair. I needed that. So If I would just suggest anybody, think through that, do your research. What is comfortable for you? Because most businesses take two to three years to get off the ground and start generating the revenue, and especially when you're thinking about replacing the revenue you were generating, that takes a lot If you were making a nice six figures or close. So, doing your research on how you want to do business and where you want to do business we always recommend that to everybody.
Speaker 2:There's many great career sites, like career site builder, all sorts of places where you could go and type in all your Interests and it really comes out with different job descriptions. I tell people to peruse LinkedIn a lot. Look at individuals that you admire or that you work with and take a look at their LinkedIn. What does it say about them, what is their description? And then go do some research on that. I use, indeed, glass door many different places that are, you know, free in order to do a lot of research to help individuals, and I coach others to go to these places. I'm like your time spent with me is for a dialogue, is for me pulling information out of you and Giving you advice. The research you can do on your own, it's you know, it's free. Go find it, because that way you can really get a head start on things.
Speaker 2:And then the third thing is to rebuild. Okay, make that commitment. Are you going to rebuild a skill? Are you going to rebuild a thought process? Are you going to rebuild a lens? What are you going to rebuild? Because, again, if you're pivoting into a new career, you're probably not just doing the same thing, even when we think, let's say, someone said well, why don't you just open up your own financial Investment advisory firm? And I said that could be very interesting and, yes, I am skilled to do that, but is that what I want to do all day long? No, I Didn't want to do that all day long. So when you're thinking about rebuilding, you have to go back to the first two hours, your reflection and research and see, are you being true to them all along the way? And then get the support you need. It may be from a business coach, it may be from an executive career coach, or it may be from small business association, using a lot of the resources out there to help small businesses get started. But definitely have a plan.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fan of winging it. When you are speaking about your time and your treasure, you know, and then you throw on top of it your talent. Really don't wing it. Have a plan and, as you were saying these are, do it through a systemic lens. You now have a chance to make a change and hold yourself accountable. So whatever you're doing, however small or large, put it through that lens as well. Run it through. Who is not being advantaged by what I'm doing, or who could I possibly be hurting by what I'm doing? Just ask yourself a few questions and you could come up with some really good answers. In making sure that you're creating a career transition that honors you and your work, so many good things in that.
Speaker 1:So, rx3, we're gonna reflect, do some research. I love the piece about determining what you want to rebuild, because it's not rebuilding everything. You don't have time to just rebuild everything. You've got to really focus, and this piece of I've said this on podcasts before where people are really focused on how do I just get out of this job, and I've heard so many people who are multimillionaires say keep your job for a while.
Speaker 1:This is going to help you in the transition. It helps you not to be stressed out about the transition and how you're doing things and to each or their own, because you have to think about you. Do you need to just stop and be only in? Are you in a toxic situation in your job? What is happening? So I think that's a big piece of the reflection as well is to think about what is this? My friend, dr Jackson, says what is it costing you to stay where you are? So, when we think about the price that you're having to pay emotionally, physically, even financially what is that cost gonna be to stay in the situation that you're in? And also, what is the cost gonna be to go to the next situation, because we know that entrepreneurship isn't easy. Being on a job you don't like isn't easy, nothing's easy.
Speaker 2:It's never just one simple answer, is it, dr Ramon? It's never just one simple answer and I agree with you. It's thinking it through, talking, creating a list of your trusted advisors around you and asking them for their input, getting that opinion. I agree, if it's toxic, you gotta get out. But again, a lot of women, we stay in situations because we have to financially, whatever it may be. So I'm also saying that understand where you are and where you wanna go, and what does that path look like? What does that plan look like? Can you accelerate it? Maybe so. Do you have to? Not always.
Speaker 2:Maybe there's certain benefits that you have at your workplace. If you're not, let's take the example you're not in a toxic work environment. Maybe you don't like it, but it's not toxic. Make sure you've leveraged every single benefit. If they are offering any educational benefits, make sure you're taking them.
Speaker 2:Credentialize yourself in an area that will also be transferable to your new business you're planning. Think strategically on how can I maximize the resources where I am in order to move forward, certainly with the health. Make sure, if you've been planning anything, get it done. Maximize those resources because, yes, when you transition to your own, you're gonna be in the marketplace. Maybe things will be a little cheaper, maybe not. So you wanna make sure you're just thinking through.
Speaker 2:That's what we also talk about that research. Do a lot of research and there's a lot of loans out there Small Business Association. You can be applying for loans while you're working and getting yeses or noes along the way. So you know your path. You'll start to know okay, it's easier than I thought financially, or it's much harder. I need to just slow down for a little bit. Save more money. I teach a course for SCORE, which is a national volunteer organization for small businesses, and they partner with Small Business Association, and one of our first slides is 66% of businesses have failed after year three because of funding and planning. They didn't save enough funds to carry them over and they didn't have a plan. So a lot of things that can be avoided.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so that funding.
Speaker 1:That's a whole issue especially when you think about women and minority businesses and the differences in funding. I was looking at a stat the other day that said that black women-owned businesses typically net $24,000. And white women-owned businesses net like 160 something, a thousand I think it was. I can't remember that statistic for that. But the what 24,000 stuck out to me because I'm like, look at the gap here. That's bigger than the pay gap in corporate America. That's a huge wealth gap and that is a huge thing that we really need to start to think about and to think about how do we make sure that people don't get to that three-year period where they haven't planned and they don't have the funding, and so that we can do a whole another podcast on how you get funding and where you get that from. But just tell us a couple of resources.
Speaker 1:I know we talked about the Small Business Association. What are other sources of funding? And let me add this thing, this piece in when I've looked at Small Business funding a lot of times, it has said that you already need to be having like a million dollars in your business. Sometimes. I know, I know, okay, so how do we get beyond that and get to the point where we can make a million dollars in the business and have the funding. So where does a person start? Because they're not necessarily starting at a million dollars to get the small business funding right.
Speaker 2:I agree, dr Ramona. You know, when I first pivoted, the first time I got laid off from the financial industry, I was in my forties and I started a coffee house and I thought, oh, I'll go to small business association and get a loan. No, I couldn't even qualify and I'm like wait a minute, I have money, so why can't I get new money? It is not as easy as everyone thinks, but, having said that, it is a hustle to get the money. So I would start there, because one thing they can give you is understanding the paperwork you're going to need, right? You're going to need a lot of paperwork together and information. I would also go to SCORE S-C-O-R-E. It's nationwide.
Speaker 2:Now, while they don't provide direct funding, they provide free mentorship, free, free mentorship for anyone in order to help you think through and progress through in your business to avoid being that 66% percentage right. That's the goal of SCORE, and they have workshops that are free, everything. So you can really get a lot of intel. One of the workshops is how to get funding. So go to SCORE, look it up nationwide.
Speaker 2:Another thing I would say is really go to your local city, go to your local city organization and find out. They often get many grants and many funding that they will give to the businesses. For example, we have one in our city that I live in and they were just saying it's kind of like, make a wish but not for, it's not the children, it's make a wish for small businesses and you could submit your business proposal and then they can kind of vote on it and they give out $10,000, $20,000 to different people. I mean, every little bit helps. You just have to really be a hustler to go out and get it, but those are a few places I would go to.
Speaker 1:Okay, that is good. So SCORE, let's put that at the forefront of your mind. Score nationwide yeah, score nationwide.
Speaker 2:That's the network, that's community, it's nationwide. Go Okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, and I love the idea that it has the free mentorship, because sometimes you just need to start to speak the language Exactly.
Speaker 2:We say that you need someone to really kind of pick apart your homegrown idea that all your family and friends told you was wonderful. Okay, but I need non-family and friends. I need people who don't know me to buy my services.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can just end the podcast right there. There we go, that's it. So let's talk about, though. This one last thing about influence. So how do we gain the influence? Because I know a lot of women and minority business owners. We are constantly trying to make sure that we have recognition for the work that we do, and we're trying to. We want to have impact and influence. So what are some of the tips that you can give us for how we grow that as we're growing our businesses?
Speaker 2:So what are the things, dr Ramona, when I was teaching influence as well as beinga part of it? Right, myself trying to become more influential in my workplace is definitely determining what your brand is. You have to know what people think about you and say about you. That is your brand. Your brand isn't what you say about yourself. Your brand is what others are saying about you and, first of all, realize it. Is there a difference between that? Close that gap but really solidify what is your brand.
Speaker 2:And the easiest way to create a brand is to become an expert in something. And when I say become an expert, it could be as simple as becoming an expert in organization, becoming that expert in having and I'm not saying these things are easy having a very effective meeting right, be known for something. It can be small, it can be huge, but pick something that amplifies your skills and really that you could become known for, so that when anybody in the organization wants that done, they're going to come to you for that expertise. And then, once you have become that expert, teach, teach it, share that. I know a lot of times we think hoard it, because then they'll have to come to me. But believe me, if you want to be influential, be the teacher, be the one that is creating different individuals.
Speaker 2:To take it back to the Super Bowl, of course, when they talk about Andy Reed, the head coach, they talk about his coaching tree, and one of the gentlemen across from him was part of that. Who out there in the coaching world came from him? His two to litch, who was a defensive coordinator, who was an offensive coordinator, quarterback's coach. They look for great coaches to also mentor and develop other coaches. That's the same thing when you want to be influential, not only what is your brand, what are you known for, right, what is your expertise, but then who are you teaching and mentoring? Because people will say that, especially in corporate America oh, you worked for me. Oh, okay, then I'll know three things about you. I know you will be right. In form, prepared, inclusive, they're going to start saying the things that are part of your brand. I think that's one of the ways to become influential.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is so good and to think about a lot of times. Well, a couple of things that have come to mind. A lot of times we don't do that because we have this imposter syndrome and we think, well, I'm not an expert, there's no way that I can teach other people. People are going to think I'm silly if they hear the words that I'm saying, but we often think, when you're becoming an expert, you know so many more things than a lot of other people. So serve who you're able to serve at that moment and then, as you grow, serve the next level, right.
Speaker 2:You don't have to know the most. You just have to know 20% more than the person you're teaching.
Speaker 1:Exactly and a lot of people do, yes, and then embracing that and getting yourself out there and being visible, because I think that's something that we have, a knowledge, we have all of this information, but we're scared to be visible. We're sweet, but we don't have the fearless piece.
Speaker 2:We don't have that fearless in there yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's end on that. How do we become fearless? How do we put this stuff into action so that we can make that career transition, we can have the influence that we need and we can go out there and be the bold women that we are created to be?
Speaker 2:Well, to put that in a simple answer, is to seriously acquire your background of friends. Acquire your advisory board. Lean on those who already think you're great. Do not look for the naysayers to build you up. Look for those that are already in your corner and think that you are fantastic and ask them to give you opportunities. Create that plan that will help you become more fearless, because again you'll be doing things under someone and with someone that believes in you and that will allow you to fail Right and lift you back up and go forward. Try things that you already know you're good at and again amplify them. Also, I would say, dr Ramona, do it through others. If you're nervous about yourself and you're thinking I don't think I'm as fearless, help create someone else to be fearless. Help promote them to be fearless. That will then give you that support and they'll probably carry you.
Speaker 1:Love that. So what a perfect way to end this. This has been such an amazing conversation, just so many nuggets, so many great things that I have gotten from your conversation. And so tell us, because I'm sure the inclusive network community wants to stay in touch with you. So how do we stay in touch with you? Where are you going to be? What's your next big thing that we can plug into Tell?
Speaker 2:us, yeah. So again, I can't wait to have you on our podcast. I'm so excited about that, so they can follow by hearing that as well. But also come on over to SweetButFairlesscom, follow our blogs, follow us on LinkedIn under successful women's network. That's where we put a lot of our information, that's where we have a lot of our blogs and newsletters and it's where we also promote a lot of other women and underrepresented groups. I also hold free, free, complimentary workshops, called I Am Remarkable, where, like 60 minutes to 90 minutes, where you can really practice the art of self-promotion, and I'll share that with everybody too. That's all under sweetbutfairlesscom. You can find it all there.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, you all go to sweetbutfairlesscom. And this was another episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. Thank you, mary, for coming on the show and we thoroughly enjoyed you. You all stay in touch with Mary and I will see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. Bye, and that wraps up another episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast.
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