The Inclusive Networker
The Inclusive Networker is a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners, solopreneurs, and network marketers develop inclusive marketing and sales processes that help them authentically reach diverse audiences and subsequently grow large, diverse networks of customers, business partners, or team members.
The Inclusive Networker
Disrupting Harmful Nonprofit Practices with Breauna Dorelus
Are you ready to shake your perspective on the nonprofit sector? Today we are joined by Breauna Dorelus, the founder and chief cause consultant at Connecting the Cause. A fervent advocate for community-centered support, Breauna challenges us to confront and dismantle the harmful practices that shadow the noble intent in nonprofit works, particularly towards black and brown communities.
We emphasize the importance of black-led leadership and the need to shatter harmful stereotypes. Join us as we underscore the value of reciprocal relationships and the crucial role of community involvement in decision-making. As a bonus, we bring into focus the role of businesses in fostering community engagement and systemic change. Tune in as Breauna enlightens us on the cultural impact of products and policies, reminding each of us to stay committed to doing what's right, all in pursuit of a more inclusive and equitable world.
In this episode, we talk about the following...
1. Breauna Dorelus's background and the reason why she founded Connecting the Cause.
2. Common mistakes people make when starting to volunteer for communities in need.
3. The importance of building genuine, mutually reciprocal relationships with these communities.
You can find Breauna on…
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/connectingthecause/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/breaunadorelus/
Want more from Dr. Raymona?
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drraymonahlawrence/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drraymonahlawrence/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drraymonahlawrence/
Thank you for listening!
~Dr. Raymona
Hey, hey, hey, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1:Welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast, where we help network marketers, small business owners and solopreneurs become aware of gaps in knowledge or awareness that could be keeping their networks and businesses small. Tune in as we give tips and simple practical tools to make your business more inclusive and we teach you how to build inclusive communities that support diverse customers, team members and business partners. So if you want to authentically build relationships with diverse communities of customers or business partners, you are in the right place. But be warned you will be challenged. But here's the thing you won't be judged. I'm your host, dr Ramona. I'm a speaker, coach, consultant, public health professor, wife, mom and a fierce challenger of broken systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. I'm so excited to be with you on your journey to becoming an inclusive networker, so let's jump right in.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, hey, and welcome, welcome, welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. This is your host, dr Ramona, and who am I calling into conversation today? Well, it is Brianna Dorellis. Let me tell you about Brianna.
Speaker 1:Brianna Dorellis is the founder and chief cause consultant at Connecting the Cause. That's a consultancy dedicated to dismantling harmful volunteer practices implemented by nonprofits and volunteers towards black and brown communities. Brianna believes in community inclusion in all aspects of the volunteer process and has dedicated her work to ensuring that service is centered around co-dreaming and not harmful charity. She believes that best practices may not be the best for all and that we must look at service through the lens of community centered support in order to create a more just future. And I will tell you, I absolutely love Brianna Dorellis. I have known her for many, many years, since she was a toddler, and I have watched her grow up into this amazing, amazing community servant, this leader, and I am so excited for you all to just be a fly on the wall in this conversation, because our hearts are so connected in so many different ways. So, brianna, welcome to the Inclusive Networker podcast. Finally, I got you.
Speaker 2:We are here we are here. I am so excited to share this space with you and to see and navigate just where our worlds have ended up through, like growing. Yeah, we grew up, we were together like I know Mona, she know me. It's the real deal. So I am excited to occupy this space with you, to share with you. I am honored to be here, so thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and so you know, I do know a lot about you, but as you have grown up, as I said, you have become this force in the world, and I am so, very proud. And so tell me, you know how you develop this lens. What is your lens? What's your background? How did you get to this place where you're doing the work that you're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So my mom absolutely was and is a nurturer. My dad is a conductor, does not meet a stranger. And I literally remember growing up and being in community with people. I'd be in town and my dad would be like, hey, brie, camilla, let me introduce you to somebody. And I'd be like, okay, and they're like this, your cousin. And I'd be like, okay, cousin, hey, I don't know their name, I don't know you know any connection. I knew nine out of 10 times we were probably not blood related, but I knew that that meant I was there for them, they were there for me.
Speaker 2:I knew there was a sense of kinship and connectedness, and so I really learned community from my parents and how they navigated their spaces. I learned community through the way that they shared things with people, with each other. I learned the way they instilled family and dignity within us, and also my mom being that nurturer, nurturing, you know, gifts inside of me. So she would see me gravitating towards National Geographic books when I would be in stores and she would be like, oh, what's, what's this interest? And so she put me in Maldonado, united Nations, and so, at like a very young age, I realized that there are entities and spaces that are tackling like large, hard world issues, and that they're important and they matter, and that I'm thinking about these things, that, like a really young age, I am navigating and thinking about what I want to do, who I want to be, and I realized there is this world that's called the nonprofit space, the nonprofit sector, and so I had an opportunity in college to study abroad in Costa Rica. I had the opportunity to volunteer abroad in Honduras and I had one of those moments of like how can I do something like this for the rest of my life? I had one of those, and so that was really the spark that started me thinking about service and volunteerism from a from a global perspective. And then here I joined AmeriCorps.
Speaker 2:I go through humanitarian aid organizations, working in volunteerism, refugee resettlement, guiding people through volunteer experiences and working in ministry, and then working in holistic neighborhood development all of these things and as my journey continues, I start recognizing and understanding my identity within these places. So here I am, a black woman who's in volunteer engagement, and there's so many instances where I'm starting to see volunteers pity and paternalize communities that look like me. I also start to hear from bosses, from supervisors how can we make the volunteers happy, how can we make sure they keep coming back? And oftentimes what made volunteers happy were not the things that impacted the community. And so it was at a crossroads where I was like, do I do my job that's been assigned to me, or do I look out for the cousins, right, the aunties, the people that I'm connected to, that I'm navigating life with?
Speaker 2:And so all these instances of volunteers having lack of lived experience, honestly, and not being connected and not being in community with the people they're wanting to help, so they only know them based on their needs, they only know them based on what they can give them, but not knowing them based on their whole identities, their opinions, their likes, their thoughts, their favorite foods these things don't matter, because right now my ego is getting filled and then I feel like I'm solving this world issue in one three-hour volunteer sitting, and then I can keep moving forward, and so I didn't want to navigate that anymore. I didn't want to have to choose and I was like there has to be a different way. And I start to remember the history of my grandfather on my mom's side and my grandmother and the eighth grade education, the third grade education that they had, but still what dignity they brought to their work, and my grandfather being a sharecropper and then moving forward and having his own land of multiple acres and navigating his own businesses. And I'm like what and who are black people when we are free, when we are liberated, when we are operating in community, and so much of the philanthropic sector has now just brushed us down to, these are the people who we give to, and they should be happy about it.
Speaker 2:And so I founded Connecting the Cause, because I wanted to navigate and dismantle and interrupt this system of black. Folks are only here to be given to. I wanted to find those spaces of liberation and justice so that black voices are heard and appreciated in these spaces and we're not just the given to, we're the givers, we are the leaders, we are the black led organizations that you are coming to in order to help our increase, our work. And so I wanted to change that and dismantle that for the good, because I knew how it felt when I myself was in board meetings and staff meetings and someone new would come in and even though I was the manager, I was the director they would look to the intern who was white just because they were white, and I remember having to navigate and I was like, wow, if I feel like that here.
Speaker 2:Of course, there's this paternalism, this pituitous hierarchy that's happening in volunteerism, because philanthropy has put us in this place, and it didn't just put us in this place because black people are prone to be in need. We are put in these places because the systems that were created, that found in this country, were not designed for us to thrive, and so we have to take a look at the systems and the reasons for why the landscape is like it is, and not blame people, because when you blame people, then people turn into projects that you have to solve, and that is not the culmination of black people in this world.
Speaker 1:This is so good and it reminds me of how I came to this work, because I'm working with companies and I'm looking at the top of these companies and I'm like there are no black women at the top of this company. Make it make sense. Make it make sense Because I know how hard I've seen these women working and this is a 40 year history of not seeing these women at the top of this company. And so now it's not again what you just said blaming individuals and saying it's something you're doing wrong, you're not doing enough. You got to work harder. Giving us this there's so much to unpack in this but continuing to perpetuate this strong black woman schema. Right, Like do more, do more, you got to be more, be better, to get to the top.
Speaker 1:So it's not that, it's not the individual, it's how do we look at the system? Yes, individuals make up the system, but we also have to see that if the system is not allowing the individual to thrive, then there's no way that they can work hard enough to overcome those types of things, right? So it's interesting something that you said that the volunteers and individuals are not in community, that they only knew the people from their need, and I think that's so important for us to remember is that we have got to get out of our own lens, and that's why I ask everybody their lens, because I wanna know why you think the way you do. But I also need to know, I need you to see that you have a lens. Regardless of how inclusive that lens is, you still have a lens, and we've got to be able to open up to other people's perspectives and really embrace difference. And so, oh, this is already so good, Briam. Okay, so when you said philanthropy has put us in this place, tell me a little bit more about your thoughts about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So as I dig deeper and deeper in philanthropy, I'm like my, my, my. Somehow people believe that, because the nonprofit space in general is altruistic, is doing good work, we have somehow escaped the grips of white supremacy. Oh, yes, businesses, yes, business have white supremacy. Yes, education system. Yes, healthcare system. But no, the nonprofits. They're good Because they do good stuff for people. They fill in the gap. But with us filling in the gap, we've become a system ourselves, and a harmful system at that.
Speaker 2:And so we have to look at philanthropy from how it was created in the institutions that we have now. So, first off, when you think about the history of philanthropy, white, rich elite men were the ones that got to decide who were, and were not, deserving of charity. They became elite white men because the businesses and the industrial revolution allowed them to build a system of wealth with the haves and the have nots. And so once they establish who are the ones that need help, they said white women who were widows and young white children. Those were the ones who needed our most support. So, of course, number one, we're out of the picture. And we're out of the picture mainly because at that time we actually weren't considered people, we were three-fifths, we were considered property, so of course it wasn't even a thing for us to be considered of. Oh, let's make sure they're taken care of. And so, as we navigate and think about who is the haves and has nots, we then move into who and how do we tackle the issue of poverty? If we tackle the issue of poverty from a systemic level, then the white elites would have to tell them themselves, because they created the system. So we're not gonna tackle it that way, we're gonna tackle it through a band-aid approach, that poverty is your fault. If you would only get a better job, if you only had more motivation, if you would only pull yourself up by the bootstraps, then you would be able to be like us. And so they filled the gaps by saying well, we're just gonna give you more food, we're just gonna give you more housing, we're just gonna give you A, b and C, but they don't change the conditions of people. And so move forward.
Speaker 2:As these systems were not built for us healthcare system, education system, criminal punishment system we start navigating these places and spaces and as we come up, we are now on the receiving end of that service, because we are the ones that are most vulnerable. Why are we the most vulnerable? Not because there is some innate DNA characteristic that makes black folks A, b, c and D, but it's because it wasn't built for us in the first place. So we have to go all the way back to the beginning to recognize who it was built for, why was it built? And then, in order, and it goes on and on.
Speaker 2:In order for us to get the donations, we have to pull up the heartstrings. How do we pull up the heartstrings? We make sure that black and brown folks look the most desolate that they could ever be, because then we are calling on their sympathy, and sympathy drives dollars. And so we have to get to the point.
Speaker 2:Even from donors, from business owners, people who want to connect to this, they have to say I want to donate or I want to be a part of good work, because I believe that black folks are meant to thrive and meant to be here in the future.
Speaker 2:It can come from a deficit perspective of I want them to be better, because if they just had this job they could be like me, or they just assimilated better, then they could do this good thing.
Speaker 2:So I want to help and protect that and it's like no.
Speaker 2:I want you to value who I am as a person, which also means valuing my humanity, valuing my dignity, but also valuing my nose, and valuing my anger, and valuing my skills and my experiences all of those things together.
Speaker 2:So it's so important for us to dig and know that history so that we can change and let me say this in our communities before we ever came on a ship to the United States belonging and connectedness and shared care is a part of our culture. This is not something that was even developed through philanthropy. It's something that we innately have as a community to take care of one another, and systems have disallowed us and disconnected us from being able to do that in all of the ways that we can. The good and amazing thing about us being resilient, amazing folks is that we still find ways to do what we need to do, to get the job done, while at the same time understanding and recognizing that there are systems that allow hard things and harmful, violent things to happen that keep us where the system wants us to be, because the system is working perfectly for how it was designed.
Speaker 1:And then how we take in all of this into volunteerism, because I know that a lot of times people will say they want to have a mission, they want to have something that they do with the money, the funding that they get from their organizations. And then they go into these communities and then they are just like well, I'm going to make them like me. Like you said, I want to make sure that they are having the same customs, the same culture, the same privilege that I have, and so I'm going to move them into that space and so talk a little bit about some of the mistakes that people make as they're starting to volunteer and bringing in their volunteer into other countries and communities.
Speaker 2:Yes, who? I'm going to have to pick a top three. Ok, pick a top three Right.
Speaker 2:Let me pick that. Let me pick the top three, ok, so definitely one mistake is that people feel like they are the experts of someone else's lived experience. We're coming in and because I have this wealth, say we're dealing with someone who's unhoused. Because I have a house, because I pay a mortgage, because I know about home ownership, I am going to come in this organization and mentor this unhoused person and make sure they get on their feet. This particular person may be dealing with trauma, may be dealing with mental illness, may be dealing with loss of hope, may be dealing with things where they did have a home, who's to say, they haven't had a home before.
Speaker 2:There's all of these preconceived notions that come in, that are based on racism, that are based on stereotypes, that are based on what they've heard, and so because one of the things that white supremacy does and that whiteness can do when you embody that, is that there's either a right or wrong way. There's either a right way to do something or a wrong way to do something. So I know the right way. I am coming in, I am going to teach you the right way. You should be grateful for the right way. There is no room for you to be able to grow and connect with me.
Speaker 2:It is a top-down power hierarchy where I'm coming in because I'm the one that has something that you need. Therefore, you're at the bottom of the totem pole and I'm the one who is actually navigating what things should be and what should happen. And so when we think about those experiences and you come in, and you come in with all of your master's degrees and education and skills, that doesn't mean that their lived experience is not valid, it doesn't mean that it is not worthy, and so that's one of the things that I come in. And then once they try to put that on folks and then there's a tad bit of resistance oh, they're ungrateful, oh, they don't, they're just all the same. They don't want our help, they don't want our support. You should be grateful that someone like me is coming in, and it's funny, because people won't say this out loud, but they'll have it all up in here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It comes out very subtly in some way. So that's one thing that I think that happens when it comes to harm. Another piece is when people come in and they already have preconceived notions around who black and brown folks are, and what they do is they separate the good ones from the bad ones. And so what ends up happening is, say, there is a white woman that's gonna go to a boys and girls club and mentor a group of black children. She or you know they will go in and start mentoring, start helping and start supporting. They start developing a relationship with those children and they start to take ownership of them in a paternalistic way and say those are mine. But then they could walk out of the doors out of that boys and girls club, go to Walmart, see a group of black children the same age as the children that they're mentoring and automatically have a feeling of unsafety or have a feeling of something is about to happen or let me be on guard. And so what they've done is they know how to connect because they are in a position of power and that particular folks are in a place of need, but when they come out of that they don't know how to deal, how to interact, how to build genuine, mutually reciprocal relationships with black and brown folks. And so then there's a white saviorism aspect that comes in of like I know them because they're the good ones, but these are the bad ones, and I have to, and I deal differently with each of them according to how I feel and according to my ego and how I operate within saviorism. And so that's a big thing that I have continued to see over and over again of that lack of humanity for all and only for the ones that you're good with.
Speaker 2:And then one last piece that I've really seen, or volunteerism has taken a toll, is where there is a constant extraction from the community in different ways, over and over again. So days of service are held in communities where businesses and business leaders come in for one day with their t-shirts and their coffee mugs and they come in and make the difference and they leave the next day. Don't hear from them ever again. There's not a situation where a relationship was built, there's no long-term support, and so when you have a community that every time they interact with white folks, they are in a position where they are the ones being given to their on the receiving end. There is no asking or prodding or about long-lasting relationship. There's no lingering within the community. It's just a very transactional one and done.
Speaker 2:And I know of communities that they have six, seven, eight corporate groups, high school groups, businesses coming just in and out, in and out, that are putting band-aids. Let's pack the backpacks, let's give them the food, but they don't want to hear about the reason this particular community is in the position it's in. If it's not about their character and it's one of the I see folks mustering and being able to say, oh yeah, it's because they made bad choices. I can sit with the fact that they made bad choices because I can help them with better choices.
Speaker 2:But when you say it's because of an education system or in healthcare system that, honestly, your privilege has contributed to in the running of that system, that's when it's like I just came to volunteer. I did not. I didn't come here here root causes. I came here to solve the problem by packing the backpack. Let me pack the backpack and let me go on with the rest of my day, and so we're not. A lot of times I run into people not ready to have the conversation that your business purchases where you shop, who you patron, who you support. All of that has to do with why there are certain communities that are, historically and presently, intentionally repressed from being able to thrive, and you're a part of the harm, and so it's a weird cycle of you creating and being a part of the privilege that causes that.
Speaker 2:Well, at the same time, you come in a day and you try to fix something, and then you're like oh, we're good to go Our feet are clean when you start back the next day, being a part of that system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when you really start to dig down in that and to talk about those issues, that's when this individualism comes out and it's like, hey, I was able to get there. I picked myself up by my bootstraps and I made it and I'm good to go. So why aren't you? And it's like you can see people just backing, backing, when you start to have those real conversations.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I have done so much community engagement with companies and I will tell you, I was at a meeting the other day with a company and I was talking to them about their work with a sickle cell community. The sickle cell community and, of course, mainly individuals with sickle cell disease are black individuals, black and brown individuals Not all, not exclusively, but it primarily affects African Americans. And so when I was talking to them, I was talking to them about they had this group of researchers together and we were the experts. And it was like we're bringing you together to talk about what we wanna do in this community. We're developing these new programs and these products, and here's all the things we found and we're giving this to you all to look through and to give us your feedback on.
Speaker 1:And so after a while, I said well, when are you gonna talk to the sickle cell community about this? And they said, oh, you all are the experts. We're just gonna talk to you. We'll talk to them at some point down the road. And I literally had a visceral reaction to this and I almost fainted. I was like, are you serious? Wow, they are the experts. You have to start with them first and then come tell us after. Now, me being a person who has sickle cell disease, I was like let me take my hat off as an expert and put on my hat as an individual with sickle cell disease, so that.
Speaker 1:I can tell you that this is not okay. You can look at us as okay. We come into this community. We have developed these things for you. Isn't it great that we have done this for you? We are the best company because we developed this thing for you, and then the people in the community are like that doesn't work for us. I don't care about pain. I wish you could fix my fatigue Right.
Speaker 1:So it's like there's so many things that we're not getting to because we're not involved in the community because we think that they are not the experts of their own life, and it absolutely drives me nuts when I see companies do this and it's like, and everything, every way that it's set up, the systems, the model is set where, oh, we can't pay patients, we can pay researchers all of this money, but we can't give this money to the community. When we have grants, we can't give the money to the community because they don't know what they're doing with it.
Speaker 2:And so we've got to do Ten years, yes, ten years. Now that comes into that. It's just don't get me started, ramona.
Speaker 1:I want you started you on the podcast go ahead, let it go. No, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Because I, you see, what people don't realize is what are the bottom line mindsets of those decisions that are made? It's they will never say this out loud, but you have to believe, in order for you to make those decisions, that community doesn't need the money because they don't know what to do with it. They infantize us as children that we do not know how to create autonomy for our own lives. And then there's a sense of squander and squalor, like we just won't, we'll spend it on frivolous things because we won't know what to do with it. And all of that are those racist, white supremacist stereotypes that have not left. They've just matured and they've said it better. And they say it in different places and in different times. And that's why I'm so convinced of black led leadership in nonprofit spaces, where so many of black leadership comes directly from the community that's being served. How many billions and billions of dollars throughout the years have been wasted on community initiatives that are not for the community, that fall flat and just flop because it's not taken on by the community, because it's not what they wanted in the first place? And what is the? What is the end result of the conversation when they're back in the room and people ask why didn't this work? It's not because we're at fault, because we didn't listen to the community. It's literally oh, the community didn't take it and run with it. It's there. They didn't adopt what we wanted, they didn't participate and so we had lack of buy-in. That's never the conversation. The conversation is you know well, let's tweak this and let's try it again. Let's send out some more flyers. The amount of flyers and block parties and handing out turkeys for Thanksgiving he's one off transactional situation. How let's even think of? Okay, thanksgiving's coming up. People are about to be in the giving spirit.
Speaker 2:How undignifying is it to open the back of a U-Haul truck in a community and stand on top of it and hand down turkeys to people who are in lines? How much dignity is actually there? How much relationship building is actually happening? How many conversations are ensuing so that later on there's a wait a second? I had this conversation with this woman and they actually don't want turkeys. Right now she needs help working on her resume. How many of those conversations ensue when we be charity from a top-down model instead of a reciprocal relationship, neighborhood approach?
Speaker 2:We miss the mark and this is something that, as I do my consultancy work. I really think sometimes I'm like you know what? I don't know if there's gonna be a place for this. I don't know if there's gonna be room for this. And Ramona, over and over and over and over, I see churches, nonprofit organizations, civic organizations who are consistently doing this without dignity, without respect. They think they're hearing from the community because they have focus groups, because they have surveys, but then they're the ones that are implementing the plans. It's not the community that's implementing the plans. They don't give power back where power is due.
Speaker 2:And so all of these situations where we're really running on a hamster wheel, and especially, I think about Atlanta, the place where the birthplace of the civil rights movement, where there are so many black and brown folks, where there are. So I mean, our nonprofit footprint is huge, our corporate headquarter footprint is huge and we have the. Our wealth gap between black and white is just astronomical. Why is that still? Because we're not having the correct conversations and we are not walking in this posture of co-dreaming that we're talking about and we like to throw money at stuff and not have relationship. Or we like to have big forums of expertise about youth development and not one youth in the room Like we are just. We just play in a play-doh at this point, and so it does, in my heart, good to see when I see black and brown led organizations doing this work, but it hurts my heart because money is going to bigger, larger United Way is American Red Cross, and there's nothing wrong with those organizations. But the people on the ground that are closest to the solutions are not getting the support that they need, and so we have things like Giving Tuesday that's also coming up.
Speaker 2:It's the people that do the best marketing that get the most money, and it's not the ones who do the better work that really deserve that, and that's why I said earlier I want, in order for us to, in order for people to know where to give money or where to volunteer or where to support, you have to be in community with black and brown folks, because there's an ecosystem that we carry and we know where the money should go. We know the organizations that are doing the good work, have those conversations, so then you're able to know oh, this is where I give my money, this is where I support my time, this is where I invest, and I want folks to latch on to an organization for the long haul. I want them to latch on to a cause for the long haul and know that it's not a Band-Aid situation. But I mean, over and over again, we got MLK Day of Service coming up in January. I did some consultants work with United Way of King County. They are amazing. They are so forward in racial equity work and I'm a big fan of theirs, and one of the things that they have continuously done is shown up for the community in marvelous ways, and one of those ways is they had a huge city wide day of caring where everybody came out, everybody volunteered. They realized that actually this day of caring is transactional, it's only boosting from a business standpoint, it's not boosting from a community impact standpoint. And, ta-da, they got rid of it. They got rid of it and some executive directors would clutch their pearls to hear that we stopped something that brought out all these people. And yes, we did, because it's not benefiting the actual mission that you have plastered on the wall in your office. It's not even benefiting that. So what's the point? So, as these MLK Days of Service and things pop up, it's like what are we really doing? We have to know that this is a long game and it's gonna take hard work and it's gonna take being rooted in truth and be in also going along your own journey of the biases.
Speaker 2:I hold the racist feelings that I hold, the supremacy and whiteness that I hold, and what does that look like? To renavigate that? And I will say, so many of us Black folks, we have internalized oppression that we carry too because we're white supremacy. And so even more wealthy Black folks who volunteer, they may have some class issues that they need to work out. They may need to work out, oh, these the good Black folks, but these ain't over here and navigate. That. It's not a them problem, it's a system problem that's created a you against them issue too. So there's a lot of navigation.
Speaker 2:And then, lastly, even me, I'm a Black woman but I'm going to Honduras. They know me as an American. How much privilege does that hold right In a different country where they're, you know, laying out the red carpet and they're using money on us to have a good experience and orphanage, using money for us to have a good experience, when that money should be going to the orphanage and the children themselves. But because I wanted and it's hard to navigate sometimes of the very thing that sparked this in me. Also the very place I created my own harm, so having to even navigate. You know that perspective too. It's so nuanced so you have to think and look for yourself of where do I fit in all of this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the place to start, because I know people are like okay, we can see that there's an issue. We see that we're upholding white supremacy, we're seeing that we're doing harmful things in volunteerism, we can see this, and so where do you have companies start with this and how do you help them to move forward so that they get rid of these harmful practices and that they really start to connect with communities and understand that they are, that the community is the expert as they're going in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So one of the things that I push every business corporation to do. Of course we have corporate social responsibility. We have, you know, certain spaces where people have initiatives of doing good. I want people to look at their strategy, write down what their practices are, write down what their policies are around those practices, and I want them to look up white supremacy characteristics and I want them to look at each of those policies, each of those procedures and practices and say how does this measure up in dismantling these things? That's the first thing that I want people to do, because I think it's a real eye-opener when you talk about okay, what are we going to be measuring? We're going to be measuring how many volunteers. We're going to be measuring how many backpacks. We're going to be measuring this.
Speaker 2:But one of the white supremacy characteristics is quantity over quality, it's the numbers over the quality of relationships, right and so literally matching that up, and it's the recognition of. So that's one thing. Number two is how committed are we to doing this right? And having to deeply ask that question, because are you gonna be like a united way and once you figure out that something's harmful, you stop it, or are you going to justify it and say well, it helps our mission in this way, maybe not this way. You have to figure out who you want to be when it comes to helping and knowing what that is. And also, thirdly, you have to take accountability for the harm you've already done.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You have to be able to say for the last 10 years we've been throwing money and we haven't, to this organization and we have not heard what they actually wanted. Because we dictate how many volunteers come, we dictate what time we want them to be there, we dictate what our experience is going to be and we have to recognize that we actually have not been in community with the nonprofit that we're working with, which means we're not in community with the people that they are walking alongside. And then, lastly, I would say take a cause and go deep, take a nonprofit partner and go deep. And when I say deep I mean understand the story of the cause.
Speaker 2:So, like we were talking about philanthropy before, if you want to be a person of knowing about philanthropy, I got to know the good, the bad, the ugly, the indifferent. It's so interesting to me sometimes, like a couple of years ago there was a situation where I was in a workshop and there was a woman who was in there and you could just tell she was flustered by everything I was saying, just flustered. And something came to me and a voice inside and was just like she's so upset that you're interrogating the good and we have to get comfortable with interrogating the good, the good thing that we do. Are they really good? How are they really good? You know what does it look like for us to? What does good mean? Is it good for us, is it good for them?
Speaker 1:Is it good for my ego?
Speaker 2:Is it good for?
Speaker 2:my ego yeah yeah, like really navigating what that good is, because once you find out what is and isn't good good ain't good for everybody and then taking accountability of that and saying you know what, I've caused that harm, I have to be responsible for that harm. And then I have to work to rebuild, in healing, like what can I do in my power to repair and rebuild? And so then you know taking something going deep. When I say go deep, you know answering all those questions about it being good and then also knowing the racial aspects of that particular cause. In so many causes that I have researched that I thought about that I'm connected to.
Speaker 2:It's one thing to have cancer if you're a white woman. It's a different thing to have cancer if you're a black woman. It's one thing to have after school activities if you're a 12 year old white girl, then having the same thing as an 11 year old Asian boy. There's different levels. And so having to navigate and disaggregate the data and be like what does this mean for black and brown folks who experience this cause? And if we want to understand the cause, we have to look at it from a systems perspective. So how can we work to dismantle the system versus every year we're coming out and making people projects. It's the Christmas project, it's the Thanksgiving project, it's the New Year project. If we're not projects we are people.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love that, and so we don't need help, like Lilla Watson says, aboriginal activists, we need liberation, and so that is that root of understanding it takes. It's a long game, it's an infinite game and our responsibility is to know that it's challenging and to tackle the challenge and be okay with the fact that it may not be solved in that business lifetime while they're there. But while they're there we're gonna do good and we're gonna be known as a champion for the community versus just the bottom line.
Speaker 1:Wow, y'all gonna have to listen to this like three or four times. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2:This is so good, I get fast and start spewing. No.
Speaker 1:I mean, everything is just spot on and we can translate everything that you're talking about into business. Because I constantly say, when I'm talking about how to transform business with my Roar framework, that I have that's recruitment, on-boarding activity and retention. And I tell people, when you're going through and you're looking at your, if it's a presentation system or if it's how a product is moving through the company, your company or your team has to think about how this product moves. When you're moving it through different cultures, different energy groups, if you are saying, okay, everybody and I always use Sun Tan lotion, everybody needs sunscreen. Sun Tan lotion is an example.
Speaker 1:So we put this out here and we say, okay, a black woman who is 40 years old, you go out and sell that to your community. And then a young white woman go out and push that in your community and let's see who has the higher sales volume, right, oh, yeah, we have to think through these types of things. And so how are we really thinking through the system and how it works for different people and then trying to mitigate some of that before we even put this stuff out there? And then we start the blame game and saying, oh, it didn't work for you because you didn't work hard enough. No, the people in my community are not gonna buy this, they don't want it. Yes, Right, what so? Yes, yes, yeah. So I mean this is just so good. And so that piece of the policy and practice kind of audit that you talked about and not going for quantity over quality, and then how committed are we to doing the right thing?
Speaker 2:That part, that part Like yes a lot of times.
Speaker 1:We notice what is going on, we hear it, yeah, but how committed are we? Are we really saying we're gonna not have this event that brings out thousands and thousands of people in the community, right, yes, when we know it's not doing the work, because the other way was feeding our ego. This is what the way that we're gonna change it to is gonna feed the people. Yes, right, yes. And so then the accountability for the harm that's already done, I mean. And then take a call and go deep.
Speaker 1:And I think that it's so interesting because I see it with a lot of churches, a lot of community groups. We're like, okay, we're gonna do this cause today, we're doing this cause tomorrow, we're picking this one, we're gonna do one every month or one every three months, and it's like, okay, but what do you really do? Is it that you can say we're the best giver in the community, right? Or is it that you really wanna see something different and you really want to help to dismantle the systems that are causing those children to have those issues, those people to be in poverty? All of that and so I mean this opens my eyes to so many things as well. I'm constantly thinking about this and thinking about how do we navigate the community and how do we navigate the business and how do we engage and connect businesses to communities.
Speaker 1:All of this is so important and we often don't think about it, especially when there's billions of dollars on the line. We're developing drugs, we're developing these products and you know, we've got to go by the model that's been sent to us or set up for us all these times, before all these years, and so it's a difficult system to change. But I really appreciate you for being a person who is going to stand and speak up and say, yeah, it's difficult to change, but somebody has got to say something and somebody has got to do something different.
Speaker 1:And I feel that same way about community engagement and connecting communities to companies. And so, breanna, how do we keep in touch with you? We have got to follow you, we've got to do anything you're doing. We need to be listening in. So tell us. How do we keep in touch with you?
Speaker 2:I'm mostly on Instagram and LinkedIn. So you can find me on LinkedIn, breanna Dorellis. You can find me on Instagram at Connecting the Cause. That's where I preach, that's my podium. Ok, of being able to share, also just ConnectingTheCawscom. There's a form there to be able to share thoughts. I'm so open to navigating ideas and thought processes and next steps. So if anybody says, hey, I was sent through Ramona's podcast, I'm right, you priority.
Speaker 1:Top priority. Oh yes, yeah y'all go.
Speaker 2:No, no oh yeah, awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, breanna, and this was even better than I had even anticipated. So you are absolutely amazing and I want to thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Thank you again to my fabulous guest, breanna Dorellis. You will find her information in the show notes and we will see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Bye, and that wraps up another episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast.
Speaker 1:I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, our listeners, for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. Your support and engagement are truly, truly appreciated. Creating a more inclusive network and beyond starts with us, individually and collectively. Let's continue these conversations beyond the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Engage with others, challenge your own assumptions, take action to make a difference in your own spheres of influence and share, share, share this podcast with a friend. So here's what you can do next Go to drremonahlauntscom and keep up with me. Stay in touch. That's D-R-R-A-Y-M-O-N-A-H-L-A-W-R-E-N-C-E dot com. Don't forget my why in Dr Ramona, and don't you dare forget your why, and I'll see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker.