The Inclusive Networker
The Inclusive Networker is a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners, solopreneurs, and network marketers develop inclusive marketing and sales processes that help them authentically reach diverse audiences and subsequently grow large, diverse networks of customers, business partners, or team members.
The Inclusive Networker
Embracing Vulnerability with Carlos J Malave
If you've ever grappled with the vulnerability that comes with conflict, this episode is for you. Today, Carlos J Malave, bestselling author of "Translating Your Success" and developer of the Restorative Power Program, joins us to unravel the subtle yet profound difference between conflict and confrontation and how inclusive communication can be a potent tool in creating diverse, supportive communities.
Join us as we continue to peel back the layers of inclusion, his insights on creating safe spaces for uncomfortable conversations are both illuminating and inspiring. We talk about building empathy, standing up against discrimination, and the power of conflict resolution in shaping inclusive environments. Whether you're an educator, a small business owner, or a corporate professional, this episode offers invaluable insights into the transformative power of inclusive communication.
In this episode, we talk about the following...
1. The importance of vulnerability and direct communication.
2. The Restorative Power Program which focuses on building inclusive communication skills, conflict resolution, and emotional readiness.
3. What it means to create inclusive environments as a lifestyle.
You can find Carlos on…
Website https://cjmotivation.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cjmotivation/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlos-j-malave-7760a557/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/cjmotivation/
Want more from Dr. Raymona?
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drraymonahlawrence/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drraymonahlawrence/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drraymonahlawrence/
Thank you for listening!
~Dr. Raymona
Hey, hey, hey, welcome, welcome. Welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast, where we help network marketers, small business owners and solopreneurs become aware of gaps in knowledge or awareness that could be keeping their networks and businesses small. Tune in as we give tips and simple practical tools to make your business more inclusive and we teach you how to build inclusive communities that support diverse customers, team members and business partners. So if you want to authentically build relationships with diverse communities of customers or business partners, you are in the right place. But be warned you will be challenged. But here's the thing you won't be judged. I'm your host, dr Ramona. I'm a speaker, coach, consultant, public health professor, wife, mom and a fierce challenger of broken systems that keep people from reaching their highest potential. I'm so excited to be with you on your journey to becoming an inclusive networker, so let's jump right in. Hey, hey, hey, welcome, welcome. Welcome to this week's episode of the Inclusive Networker podcast. This is your host, dr Ramona, and who am I calling into conversation this week? Well, it's Carlos J Malave.
Speaker 1:Carlos J Malave is the author of Translating your Success and developer of the Restorative Power Program, who quickly established himself as a dynamic and passionate speaker. His efforts establishing the restorative power program in classrooms across the country has harnessed a genuine passion into a unique message of perseverance, compassion and inspiration. His work within KIPP and the Houston community has been featured on ABC 13 News and in 2018, he worked with Texas legislators to help draft and pass a bill to implement restorative practices within public schools. Carlos has 10 years of teaching experience in K-12, along with 10 years of speaking and consulting education. In experience in higher education. As a restorative practitioner, his work consists of helping youth find the power in their vulnerability. Carlos was born and raised in New York, but now resides in Houston, texas, with his beautiful wife and daughter. Carlos, welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome to the Inclusive Networker Podcast. I am so excited to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I appreciate the intro and I'm excited to get started.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the first question that I ask everybody on the Inclusive Networker Podcast is what is your lens? So tell me a little bit about how you see the world, how you got here, why do you do the things that you do?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. My whole work is being able to see the difference between conflict and confrontation. I grew up in a non-confrontational household and, matter of fact, growing up, I grew up in a household Puerto Rican household that everybody could dance. Everybody could dance bachata, merengue, salsa. They could dance so well that they learned how to dance around the issues and nobody learned how to be direct. So for me, it was a mission of being around people that can tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear right, and I saw the benefit in that because I saw the growth in me as a person. So, throughout my childhood and adulthood, it's been a mission of being able to help people get there as well, because people are dancing throughout their lifestyle and my dad danced his whole life and the big reason why I do what I do.
Speaker 2:My dad was a product of the school to prison pipeline and that was a great man, but he struggled with his vulnerability and expressing himself as a man, as who he really was right and now who he was pretending to be right. And for me, doing the dance was what killed my father. My father committed suicide in 2019 because he'd never developed the skills or he felt he didn't, he wasn't able to see that he wasn't alone, because he didn't become vulnerable with enough people in the world to see like, hey, everybody struggling, I'm not alone in this. And if we get to a place in corporations and schools and all over, where there's opportunity to have those conversations more often, more people will feel like they're not alone and therefore they can push through right and have the support. So that's why I do what I do and it's deep rooted for me, because when I do the work I see my father and I know this life. I move forward with it.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is such such deep rooted purpose and I really appreciate that and appreciate the idea of vulnerability. I can't say that word at all today, vulnerability because I think often we put on this mask and we're constantly saying I got it all together, especially in the DEI space, when we think about people trying to belong and they go into these groups and they say I need to look like this person, I need to talk like this person, I need to think like this person, and they're not able to be vulnerable. And so this, the thing that you said is that everybody could dance, but they danced around the issues. Wow, I mean, that's powerful. And so when we think about that, so tell us a little bit more about what you do, because I want to go into that and think about this idea of inclusive communication and how we can start to be more vulnerable, how we can start to open up these conversations with people who don't look like us, who have come from very different backgrounds, who are, who think differently from us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think for me, with my background, I grew up in the black and brown community, so I witnessed my privilege very early, right, and I got to see people going through things that I didn't have to go through just because of the way I appeared and looked. So that is, I mean I'd give you that because going into these spaces with people that don't look like us, right, I come from a place of understanding and, like I talk about my experience. So one thing that I noticed is to get someone to think about their mother. You talk about your mother, right. So I am a living example of the work that I am talking about. To get people to do the work is having those uncomfortable conversations that need to be had. So, for example, I talk about my relationship with my dad, right, and the things that I went through, and I do it through storytelling. But I'm an educator by trade. So when I do these engagements, I like to call them engagements, because I don't just go up there and speak. I help people get to a place of practice because I'm a practitioner of my work. So I do activities. Disguise that can be fun, can be, you know, I disguise it in a way to get people going and then build some excitement. Then I ask those questions right, who do you need to talk to? What do you need to say to that person? Let's reenact that. Let's look them in the face, let's see the purpose behind that.
Speaker 2:This is what happened to me and this when I started acting like when I was nine, I realized there was an issue with my household. My father and I wrote this about. I wrote this in my first chapter of my book, translating your Success. I remember waking up in a cold sweat, wondering if he was coming back. Did he get injured this time? Was he disappearing this time? Was he in a car accident? Right, was he somewhere laid up? And something happened to him. And I remember hearing something in the hallway and then jumping off my bunk bed and tiptoeing to doors, like 3am in the morning, and then I see the crack in the door and I see a light from the hallway bathroom. I'm like what is that? Who's there? So I go in there and I go closer and I see the steam coming out of the room ahead of shower and I push myself to go in the room and in the bathroom and then, you know, I take a deep breath. I'm like, please don't be nothing crazy. And I pull the curtain back and it's my father, fully clothed in jeans, a shirt and his boots, in the shower, blacked out, trying to wake himself up. That's the first time I noticed there was an issue.
Speaker 2:So I grew up acting these type of questions why don't you just stop drinking?
Speaker 2:Why don't you stop hurting mom?
Speaker 2:Like, why, Like, just stop?
Speaker 2:And it didn't change until I started asking questions like hey, bob, why do you drink? What makes you want to run away? What causes you to get there? Because it got to the place where I started seeing myself in him and I saw people around me my whole life. Like, I never want to be like that person, I never want to be like my mom, never want to be like my dad, and they end up being just like them because they haven't done the work of actually figuring out what caused them to get there.
Speaker 2:So when I was starting asking those questions at 10, 11, 12, it became this work of like with my father throughout the years of getting to figure out the patterns Right and, like I said, it got so deep that when my father committed suicide, he jumped from the L train in New York City.
Speaker 2:I did some research and I found out that my father's father jumped in front of a bus.
Speaker 2:So my mission is so that I and I'm not sure if I look down my lineage I'm sure there's a lot of men that struggled with depression and anxiety and suicide, and if I want to break it, I have to get to the place like I got to see myself on that ledge. What led them to get there and what do I have to do differently? So when I do this work, I get people to think about those moments through my storytelling and then I do activities to get them to actually ask those questions and practice those questions and give them resources so that they can take to their workplace, to their home, and actually do it Right. Restorative power is not something you do within this. Confines are six to eight hours a day. It's a lifestyle. I do it with my wife, I do it with my child, to do it with my mother, I do it with my brother and my sister, my friends, and it makes me whole. So if you can look at it that way, there's the benefit in that and that's the work that I do.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so it's the internal stuff that you started to work on that. How did you get over the fear of facing that? Because I know a lot of times people know that there are things in their childhood, they know that there are things in their past that they need to work on, but they kind of just move past it because they've got their. I'm grown now, I'm an adult, I'm supposed to be past this Right, and we're not really digging deep. And you told me something earlier. You said that people have to get to this internal stuff. So when they work, when they look at a child, they're not taking it personally, and I just thought that was so profound. So unpack that a little bit and talk about that courage to start to do the internal work.
Speaker 2:I think for me, I was put in a position a lot early in my life that I didn't ask for. My dad was coming to me for advice. I was calming my dad down when my dad would have these type of tantrums or he would have these moments. I kept my tone down and I allowed him to come down to my level Things that teachers are learning how to do as adults. I was doing that as a child and it was unfortunate because I was going up angry because I was like I should be doing it. I should be going to him. Why is he coming to me?
Speaker 2:But with that, I think, getting over that fear, I was forced to because I was an older brother, I had to do that work immediately. But like you said earlier you alluded to it whereas whatever happens in a household stays in a household. Don't let nobody see your pain. That's what we grew up hearing our whole lives and me realizing what that was doing to my father allowed me to be like forget that pain. There's a lot of men out here that are not allowing themselves to be and they're putting on this mask, so much so that they say, hey, I don't tell nobody my business, so I'm covering up, covering up, and then you forget that you end up not learning how to talk to yourself. And then guess who doesn't know themselves. You do, and now you're completely lost. You've got other people telling you how you feel and you're confused as to why are they triggering you? Because you haven't done the work.
Speaker 2:So I think, for me, the fear I got over that fear quickly because I was seeing men struggling around me my whole life and for me it was like I'm seeing the gaps, I'm seeing what I'm learning from what they're doing wrong, and I'm piecing it all together and I'm practicing it in my relationships, in my friendships, in my work spaces, and I started seeing the benefit from it little by little, and it was a journey. It was hard because there's some things that I had to un-earn, obviously, and I know way near perfect. But what I'm saying is I'm constantly learning and I believe the wisest person is the oldest person in the room that keeps on asking questions. So if you look at it that way, you can always learn and grow. So I think that's where the fear started very early, where I had to house force with an uncomfortable situation and then it just built from there and witnessing what men were doing and seeing. There had to be a better way, so Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so as you started to see this, how did this start to translate into how you work with schools and how you work with businesses and how you train people within your programs? And tell us the name of your program again and the things that you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my program is called the restorative power program and it started where I was in schools teaching all different subjects. And I remember I got an opportunity to come to Houston, texas. I had a seminar teacher where it was an eighth grade seminar class, whereas I had the freedom to do something different. And they told me, hey, do what you want. And I remember I was like, let me create like a high school readiness course, right, and get them emotionally ready for high school, give them some skills, not just applying for college or looking at college for like skills that they could take and transcend out of high school. So I got that opportunity and then I kept working. I did really well on that. Eventually I got hired at KIPP as a restorative practice coordinator and I did a conference. They noticed me there, they offered me the position. They created a position for me. I consulted the school for a year. Then they bought me in and I ended up position as a restorative justice coordinator and they said hey, you're dealing with conflict on campus, You're training your staff, you're training them daily, this and you're dealing with things that happen. And then when you have a class, it's called you could call it whatever you want, but it's seniors that have their credits to what you want. And that's where the curriculum started, where I sat down with my compliance advance. I decided to align it to standards, I decided to make it measurable, and then I'm teaching them radical candor and going over literature with them. I'm giving them circle leading skills, conflict resolution skills, and they became leaders of the work on campus where I'd be like Ibrahim go to room 202. There's a fight going on, diffuse the situation, take notes and then we'll take the notes to do a circle later on. So that's where the ABC News came about.
Speaker 2:Because I was doing this, I was put in positions where I would just stay in my lane and I was filling gaps in my lane. So when I'm telling people in business and entrepreneurship, just focus on what you're good at and then stay in your lane and just try to be a problem solver. But as I grew, well, I was solving problems that weren't in front of me, and then from there, I said that same year that I had all that success with the program at the school, at KIPP I used to high school. My father committed suicide Right, so it was a traumatic event for me. I took a couple months off.
Speaker 2:Then I came back, finished off the year, and my wife was like, take the year process, you just went back to work, start your business full time and I had a whole curriculum less in plans, assessments and everything where I can offer as a resource to schools as a speaker. So once again I'm just staying in my lane. I saw an opportunity to offer something to a school and support them and what I was able to see successful at another school and I was able to sell my curriculum from 15,000 one year, then the next year 25,000 and 33,000. And then I saw that as an opportunity to help people on a bigger scale, where I'm not just going for a day, I'm implementing something that could be used throughout a year. And now kids are getting support and kids that were in a position that my father was in that didn't see the support, now they're getting the support and getting representation on campus to talk about vulnerability and men cry. I'm more of a man now because I cry more Things like that I didn't hear growing up, so little things like that.
Speaker 2:And then I got to this place of my mentor. He was like you did what You're offering curriculum and you're getting that much for these engagements and you're not going to these. Like how? And then he was like yo, you got to do a webinar. Speakers don't know how to do that. You should teach a course on that. And I'm like I don't really know. So you did a webinar about three years ago and then people signed up and then I've been training people to create curriculum and be able to customize something from their content to organizations and schools to be able to support them holistically and more impactfully. More than just doing motivation. It's more about making actionable things for them to continue to work on their campus. So it just like I said, the main thing is just staying in my lane and then filling the gaps or filling the potholes in my path right and problem solving the whole situation. Yeah, so that's how I got to where I met today.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so all of that kind of came together into this idea of what we were saying before is inclusive communication, and you talked to us about conflict versus confrontation. So let's talk about business and we have a lot of people who are diverse within their business environment. We're trying to create inclusive cultures and talk a little bit about conflict versus confrontation and then how we start to build these inclusive environments with this more direct conversation.
Speaker 2:No, I think, first thing, in these places, you have to create space for people to feel comfortable to have these conversations. One thing that I'm noticing and I'm trying to break too, like people with infinity groups, like on campuses or organizations where they are afraid of splitting people up. And no, I think you need to do that to make people comfortable to talk how they really want to talk, right. And then bringing people together, right and with results, and I've done that and I've seen success in that. But people are afraid of that because they're like oh we, we, when we're around people that look like us, in this space alone, it's uncomfortable to admit that we do certain things. It's uncomfortable to admit that I have I struggle with this, right, and and I think having those uncomfortable situations happen will make an organization more more useful for everybody, right? So I think that's the first thing. And then, two, I think it's the whole notion of you know, trying to make it a happy place, right, but in order to get there, you need to get people comfortable. In order to get people comfortable, you got to get uncomfortable. So, for example, like I said earlier, one or two minutes of uncomfortability is better than one or two months of feeling tense every time somebody walks in the room because you have, instead, that thing that you need to say. You have an articulated that that makes you uncomfortable, right? Or you don't like that, right?
Speaker 2:Though I learned this very early in my life, whereas when I was in a relationship with my then was my friend, now is my wife, I was really trying to be in a life and I remember we, we were joking and laughing and we're having a good time, and I was like F you. I cursed at her in joking manner like we're both laughing. Like F you blah, blah. And she turned mid life straight face. I was like don't ever do that one with good, because if you curse one with good, you don't curse even worse one with bad. We're not going to be that couple in the streets. Get it, got it good.
Speaker 2:And she moved the topic along. It jad me right in the throat and I was like, oh, and I had a decision either I want to be in this person's life, so I'm going to change my behavior, or I'm going to stay away from this person, right? Either way, the person that did it makes themselves comfortable, and the person that gets that stuff done to them they put in that position to make a decision right? I haven't cursed at her in 10 years and it's the first time someone does something that if you do not say something, it becomes the way they treat you, it becomes the thing they call you right. And it's the first time someone does something. So training people to be uncomfortable for what? And this is one or two minutes. Don't do that. Don't call me that and then change the topic Like nothing ever happened. You're going to make them uncomfortable. Stop caring about making them uncomfortable and make yourself comfortable, because that's what's going to make the work with space better.
Speaker 1:So, so let's stop right there, because this is good. Wait, let's stop right there, because how do you get a person to have that type of boldness? Because I try to teach my students we read Amber Cabral's books, say more about that and really helping people to get to the point where they can speak up. And I've learned that what I'm in DI and I'm saying you know, you got to speak up for other people, you've got to make sure that you speak out, and I've realized people can't speak up for themselves. So if I can't get them to the point where they can speak up for themselves, they certainly are not going to be an advocate for anybody else. And so what are just a couple of things that you do to get people to the point where they can have that kind of communication or that kind of direct communication?
Speaker 2:I think one thing that people get caught up on is well, you need to be real. I have privilege One as a man and then a fair-skinned man. I grew up in the Black and Brown community, right, so I learned very early. I was very present, I was very aware. If you want to see the things that are happening and you want to understand the community, just be present. You can't ask a person to explain it to you. You have to witness it. You have to see it happening and then put yourself in a position like, oh, that's wrong, I'm going to speak up For me, I'm a representation of the work, so, for I'm married to a Black woman, so I see the treatment that is being done on a daily basis is exhausting to even have to go through it and then come home and have to explain it. So my, my mission is, when I see it, whether I'm with my wife or anybody else, I address it, and the more people that are one.
Speaker 2:If you're building these relationships, you're making yourself present in these environments that may make you uncomfortable, but you're there to witness what's going on and then you're able to step up. You can't ask what can I do. Stop asking what can I do? Just do. And I think it's just like as a, even as a husband, I have to learn that, like, what made me the biggest learning curve is that men aren't prepared for marriage. Right, because it is one reason, like they, we're not accustomed to coming in and doing right, unless we're told right, what? How can I help you, whatever? No, it's like coming home seeing my wife is doing three things taking one of those things off a plate without her accent and then not looking for praise for it. So, same thing with this just go into these environments and act and do right and don't look for praise. Right, and then build those relationships.
Speaker 2:And then, if you're able to have those uncomfortable conversations, right, and do that and be aware of, like hey, I start with one person. Like hey, why, why are they doing it? Like, why do you think that way? What's causing you to to react that way? Have you seen their point of view? Right, just just pushing that and seeing that as a bigger purpose, cause if everybody does that, you got to understand that internal work that's doing for you, right? So I think it's it's building empathy and then building strength at the same time. So, but it's different for everybody because, like I said, I'm very aware of my privilege. But even having the conversation about privilege is difficult to have if people aren't ready for it. So being able to have those conversations and make it uncomfortable until it becomes comfortable is what I would push.
Speaker 1:And as interesting as something you just said that you have to understand that they're doing the internal work for you as well, right? And so I think that we don't often think about that. We think about what we're having to do to adapt to other people, but they're having to do work to adapt in our environment as well, and so it's so important for us to broaden our lens and broaden our perspective so that we can build inclusive environments together. Right, it's not just really me just doing one thing or you just doing one thing. We have to think about how both of our lenses are very different and expand so that we can make room for each other.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yep agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so any other things that you want to bring out or let us know about this idea of the inclusive communication or direct communication and kind of how you've done this with companies to ensure that they're able to create these inclusive environments?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think when you're thinking about inclusive environments, you need to think about it as a lifestyle, like you can take it home as a husband, a wife, as a brother, a sister, as a son, a daughter. These are things that not only work in a workspace and if you're able to see the connection between that and connect the dots, life will make more sense and life will be easier. It's been easier for me, it's made me and I wouldn't waste my traumatic event on anybody right. But everybody's going through something. It doesn't have to be as bad as what I went through with my dad committing suicide and me missing his call because I was dealing with two boys talking about their fathers, ironically, and I missed his call, which I know he was trying to get me to convince him not to talk. So I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. But everybody's going through something and if you're able to align your lifestyle, it's all about alignment. For me, what I do within organizations and what I do within schools and what I do at home and what I do with the people that I'm connected to, it all aligns. The message is clear and the same in every aspect and if you can find alignment, everything will make more sense, and I think that's what the biggest thing we all need to get to alignment seeing the benefit in having this work done. Whether it's uncomfortable or not, whether you have experience with it or not, it will make you a whole better person.
Speaker 2:Right To be better at home, be better at work, be better in your personal time, right In your alone time, and that's the biggest thing. Most people that are scared to do this work don't spend a lot of time alone with themselves and answer questions. The scariest room is a dark room by yourself, with those questions and thoughts that you are afraid to have. My father spoke about retirement for the last three years of his life. He committed suicide three months before his retirement because he was afraid to be in that dark room. He was afraid to be alone and not have nothing to do.
Speaker 1:Wow, so alignment. I think that's an excellent point to end on, and thank you for being so open and for just modeling how to be vulnerable with us today, carlos, because I think when we're able to do this, when we're able to have these open conversations, when we're able to have direct communication and really have and see people having the courage to look within, then I think that that's something that opens the door for other people to be able to do that as well. So thank you for that. I really appreciate that in you.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you and I appreciate you having these conversations and putting the work out there. I think it's great to have a platform like this to speak on and be invited to, so thank you for doing the work consistently, with people being able to hear these type of messages more often.
Speaker 1:So thank you yeah, so tell us how we're going to keep in touch with you. What's the next big thing that you have going, or what would you like for the inclusive network, or inclusive network or community, to connect with you all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can find me everywhere, carlos J Malave. Just make sure to put the J in between the Malave. You can find me on Google. You can find me on Instagram. I'm pretty big on Instagram CJMotivation my website, cjmotivationcom. It's very easy to find me. Just look me up and all my stuff come up. I have a book on Amazon.
Speaker 2:I've run my curriculum program as well, where I train people to create curriculum for their content. I meet you where you're at, whether you have educational experience or you don't. I've been able to help people. I've sold my curriculum for $25,000, $35,000. I've helped my clients sell their curriculum from $40,000, $60,000, and then recently $300,000 in curriculum deals. So I've been able to support people in being able to get more impactful work within schools so that maybe a kid that's going through what my father went through doesn't feel alone. So, like I said, I'm very easy to find Carlos J Malave, cjmotivation and just reach out. I'm easy to communicate with, too as well. I like working with good people and I love doing good work. So, with that being said, I look forward to hearing from anyone on here and just starting the conversation. Wherever that leads, I'm OK with. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, awesome. Well, thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Thank you again to my fabulous guest, carlos J Malave. You will find his information in the show notes and we will see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Bye, and that wraps up another episode of the Inclusive Networker Podcast. I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, our listeners, for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. Your support and engagement are truly, truly appreciated. Creating a more inclusive network and beyond starts with us, individually and collectively. Let's continue these conversations beyond the Inclusive Networker Podcast. Engage with others, challenge your own assumptions, take action to make a difference in your own spheres of influence and share, share, share this podcast with a friend. So here's what you can do next Go to drramonahlaurscom and keep up with me. Stay in touch. That's D-R-R-A-Y-M-O-N-A-H-L-A-W-R-E-N-C-E dot com. Don't forget my why in Dr Ramona, and don't you dare forget your why, and I'll see you on the next episode of the Inclusive Networker. Thank you.